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What am I doing wrong, everything dying

Joined
6 Jan 2015
Messages
48
Hi all, first post although I've been a long term stalker of the forum.

I'm having ongoing issues with my 200l tank, which I can't seem to find a solution to.

All of my plants struggle. They are often yellow, limited growth and break up often. I suffer with bba and recently hair algar, which I'm currently trying to battle via algexit after several failed attempts with liquid carbon and bleach scrubbing. The bba generally forms on the leaves, but algexit has improved this. I trim the leaves but they're getting very bare as a result.

I dose ei via two automatic diy dosing pumps via the recommended schedule (dosing 40ml and confirmed accurate) I pump fe co2 and have a steady lime green drop tester, comes on 1 hour before lights on, off an hour before lights off. I use a beamswork 66 x 0.5 watt led unit, which runs 8 hours a day. My substrate is sand, with root tabs added every three months. I also run a wavemaker, which provides a good flow around the tank. I change 40% water weekly.

I have hard water, which I'm slowly bring down with ro water and high phosphates in my tap water. I reduce my ei phosphate dose slightly to accommodate.

I'm now lost, where am I going wrong. Is it insufficient light?

I'd appreciate some help as I'm struggling to find the problem.

Posted on another forum with limited advice.
 
It's all about the CO2 and getting it to the plants with good flow.

You need to find out what the KH of the water is. Then measure the pH at the time when the CO2 has been off for the night and should be at equilibrium with the CO2 from the air. It might not get to equilibrium however, without good surface agitation. In this case take a glass of aquarium water and leave it for a few hours before testing. The thing is, good surface agitation is necessary for stable CO2 levels and O2 for fish.

Then you need to measure the pH every hour during the time the CO2 is on. Ideally the pH will decrease to a stable level maybe about 1 unit lower than your equilibrium reading. It takes time and be careful to watch your fish for signs of distress. CO2 even in the best case is not evenly distributed around the aquarium, so measure the pH at the same place so you get an accurate profile.

Some people say that if you have a high KH, you don't need to get such a big decrease in pH.

Another thing is to start the CO2 2 hours before lights on and turn it off 2 hours early as well.

My pH is around 6.75 before CO2 comes on and drops to 5.75 by the time the lights are on full. It stays at 5.75 until the CO2 goes off.

P
 
Fantastic reply. Thank you.

My kh is currently 8, with a gh of 12. My pH is around 6.9 with co2 running, but I've never done an hour check. My pH is currently 7.1. Lights out since 9pm. Co2 off at 8.

I have little surface agitation, which I'll rectify.

I will change my co2 times as recommended.
 
You can buy a PH pen for £10 ish, a good investment.
I also get a one point PH drop from 7.6 - 6.6 but I have to switch my gas on three hours before lights on and off one hour before lights out to maintain that level.
However to achieve that I use a lot of C02 and quite low lighting to avoid algea.
Your tank may be different though so be careful and adjust the gas slowly to avoid killing fish!
I was using four 39w T5s over my 200l but reduced the light due to the amount of gas i was using. I know use two T5s for 7 hours + three 4w LEDs gu10 bulbs for 4 hours in the middle of the lighting period.
 
Thanks for the reply.
I have a pH pen, but I've clearly missed the point when it comes to the importance of co2 and pH drop.

So things to do.

1. Manage pH and co2 levels to achieve 1 point drop during injection.
2. Surface agitation.
3. Increase starting time of co2 prior to lights on.

Do you think the lighting is sufficient? The tank is 60cm tall.

Also I'm looking at changing my substrate to akadama.
 
I think it is best to avoid products that claim to kill algae since they hurt plants too. Consider complementing your CO2 with easy carbo for a few weeks until you get the gas fight -- that the bba dislike it is a plus.

Had hair algae too but a 3-4 day blackout took care of it for me (side effect when battling cyano)


Skickat från min iPad med Tapatalk
 
Hello friends,
I honestly think that we are here giving half answers or solving half the problem. I´m in this forum for quite a short time yet and there´s something that i noticed. It looks like that every single issue is always related to Co2 and the answer giving above i´ve read it hundreds equal in other posts.

What make plants aborb nutrients is the Co2. Co2 is the main Macro Nutrient. But in order to do that Co2 needs light. Light is the ignition! Just as in a motor. You have fuel, and the injectors but without ignition they are useless.

What is the point of geting 1 ppm drop in the PH by the injection of the Co2 if those leds may not be proper?

First of all you need to be sure that you get correct light. PAR! And then yes aply the co2 as mention.

Cause if you add those amounts of co2 and you don´t have the correct light what happens? The plants will not absorb the nutrients. They just can´t. And then the algae wins the fight between them.

And If you dont´ get a 1 ppm drop is no problem also. For instance my KH is 9 and i can´t drop from 7.6 to 6.6 = 1 PPM but only to 6.8
The KH works as a valve. And in tanks with high KH you don´t need to drop 1 PPm. Look at your drop checker when you achive a drop of 0.8 ppm ;)

Lack of water flow to distribute the co2 as mentioned before is also a half answer. If you don´t have a very good difuser to really break the co2 you also have another problem. And this is more important than the flow, Cause if you have large bubbles coming from your difuser you will have losses of co2 and hard time to dissolve it in the tank.
The more the bubbles are break inside the difuser the best. Like dust coming out is perfect, cause than yes the co2 is imediately dissolved in the water as soon as he comes out of the difuser, and few losses (almost zero) to the surface. As few losses to the surface of Co2 than you wont have to worry of geting high levels of flow at the surface creating more o2 to fight the co2 coming to the top.
As of course with Co2 being pretty well dissolved as soon he comes out of the difuser, than is in the water. And thren you wont need an amount of circulation. Just enough to see plants moving a little bit. Just a little bit.

I have a Eheim Eco pro 130 and my tank is 100 liter and With lily Pipes (that reduce the flow) agitating just a bit in the surface and in the same time pointing water to the difuser. And is enough.

This is my opinion.

Best compliments friends.
 
Regard this and face the problem otherwise:

The more big bubbles of co2 you have coming of the difuser, the more time you need to oblige them ciuculating in the botom so they explode before getting the surface. And as most people have this issue what they do?
More flow! To oblige them being in the bottom cause they need more time to explode/dissolve.... ;)
 
Thanks Paulo, very informative. I was leaning towards a light issue as it appears a little dull in the rank. But the headache of trying to find a suitable led lighting unit is very difficult and is becoming increasingly common for companies to miss out par readings. I suspect this is due to their lighting not being fit for purpose. Plus cost is a factor.

Everything seems to be there in abundance, ferts, co2, water changes, root tabs, etc. But lighting has been overlooked.

Can anybody recommend a cheap led unit suitable for growing in this depth tank or should I purchase another beamswork unit to sit alongside the current one?
 
My flow is as good as that shown in the photo. Co2 is injected via inline co2 diffuser, very tiny bubbles, which are blow around the tank. No surface movement though, which I will rectify.
 
here you have a visti to ADA gallery.. see minute 2.. a difuser and it´s injection. Almost dust.

 
Hi all,
We really need to see a picture of the plants.
I have hard water, which I'm slowly bring down with ro water and high phosphates in my tap water. I reduce my ei phosphate dose slightly to accommodate.
You may actually have low phosphorus levels in the tank as P needs to be as PO4--- ions for plant uptake to occur. In very hard water you get insoluble phosphate compounds (calcium phosphate complexes) formed which will take PO4-- ions out of solution.

No-one else will agree but
Is it insufficient light?
would be my guess. If you have any floaters, and or, emergent plants and they are still yellow? and not growing very well? you have discounted CO2.

cheers Darrel
 
Quick digging around reveals Beamswork 66 gives 2800lumen in 34" length, not actually a lot, but then 0.5W LED's are not very lumen efficient.

A standard 34" T5 tube gives 3300lumen.

Thus possibly low light is the cause.

You don't state your distance light to substrate.
 
I really agree with Paulo about the issue of getting good dissolution of CO2 in a reactor or really small bubbles from a diffuser. This isn't a problem for me because luckily I have soft water and my Up in-line atomiser never gets clogged enough to cause a problem. I tried using various in-tank atomisers/diffusers recently for a smaller aquarium and it was so difficult to get good CO2 levels that I'm surprised that many other people bother with them.

However, I think for most people having too much light is the problem: T5s are so much more powerful than T8s and aren't usually dimmable so the only option is removing tubes and/or raising the lamp if the device allows for this. LEDs are often not dimmable.

I think that in most cases having too little light is simply not an issue, and if you did have too little light yet good CO2 levels, algae wouldn't grow either. Therefore, it is correct to focus on CO2 as the most likely cause of people's problems.

If I wanted to I could run my LED at 100% and I probably would have 200PAR! Instead I use it at no more than 15% and the PAR is 20-30. In 5 weeks of my current set up, I have healthy plants and no algae.

P
 
Thanks all for your input. These are some of the photos I put on the 'other' forum :)
attachment.php?attachmentid=410474&thumb=1&d=1420232570.jpg

attachment.php?attachmentid=410482&thumb=1&d=1420232644.jpg

attachment.php?attachmentid=410490&thumb=1&d=1420232690.jpg


This was once a heavily planted tank. Everything has slowly died off. The only plants that seem to be growing well are my Tiger Lotus. They seem to be enjoying whatever is going wrong.

The subject of lighting seems to be an ongoing saga of mine, some say it's too bright, others say it's too dull. It's an area that I never seem to get right. I can't afford expensive LED units so do my best with the cash I have, but it results in mixed messages.

I'm having a nightmare with my water. The tap water is terrible, which is throwing my KH through the roof, despite my efforts to reduce it with RO water. This is no doubt causing some of the problems.

So far I've done the following.

Waving maker moved higher, which is agitating the surface slightly.
Co2 timer changed to come on two hours before lights on.

To do
Substrate change from sand to Akadama
Additional lighting, with DIY dimmer unit, which will include RGB strips for addition of reds and a slow turn on of the lights rather than a sudden switch on.
Hourly PH checks at the weekend to monitor changes.

Thanks again for your input. It's really appreciated, I was close to throwing the towel in :dead:
 
alot of the cheap-ish leds units state tht they r plant growth wen actually there not , iv used um , there the wrong spectrum there more like multiple 10,000ks thus cause algaes , bba , green and hair algae becoz there to bright and iluminate ur tank way to much .. plants thrive from 6400k to 6700k spectrum .. water flow around the tank is a must like as been stated.... dead spots were plants and rock dont move with no sway tend to start to grow algaes ..fluctuation of co2 also causes bba

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/hi-folks-heres-my-planted-dutch-55g.35666/
 
I was afraid that the unit could have been a 'too good to be true' purchase. It states that they're 6500k, but I suppose they could say anything. The plants sway all around the tank. I have one small dead spot next to a log, but this has no plants, so I don't try to resolve it. The co2 is like a mist all around the tank, very fine bubbles in every part of the water.
 
would u say the tank is bright or dull ? dirty filers tht hv the bba in them will just keep causing the problem also ,, try and keep everything clean as possible .. and i would change ur lights to t5 unit and stat again with ur plants ..throw um away if u can afford to buy all new ,, keep ur substrate clean , to much crap is not good
 
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I would say it's average. But could be better. Its hard to judge without seeing a similar tank with correct amount of light, but it's definitely been niggling at me that it's just not quite there. It's a 100 cm tank, with a 60 cm drop. The sides are a little dull because the unit doesn't fill the sides. I will try and get a picture on here, but cameras reduce the light so it's not a true reflection.
 
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