new IAPLC judging criteria.. your thoughts please ?

[Aquadream]

It could certainly effect your placing to be an independent. If you want to achieve at the higher end you have to tap into the available resources

How is this related to a "hobby" contest?
ADA claims IAPLC is a contest between hobbyists, but that's not the case.
Or perhaps you want me to do the home work here to back up my point?

How hard? Tell us when you've done it to back up your point

You can read, right. So just go on the ADA dealers web sites and see who they are. Then see what is their grading, year after year.
And then with all the honesty you can show to your self compare their works against many others.
Also check participants that come from countries where ADA sales are low or non existent. Check how those guys do on IAPLC.

It is un fare to compete in the same contest against people that live from aquascaping, because of their access to unlimited resources, customers orders that drive the production of aquascapes on a large scale and of course the infinite amount of time to do just aquascapes.

Since you mention motor sports have you ever seen anyone random even an owner of a formula 1 car to participate against professionals?

IAPLC have no categories of any kind and their judging rules are smeared by the personal opinion of every single judge, which is the perfect condition for electing who ever they want.
And of course it will be that way. It's business after all.

 

[James O]

Well it is your point and no one else has agreed with you. Why would I waste my time making your point. You have to back up your argument if you want anyone to listen or take it seriously. Otherwise it's just another seemingly baseless point of view.

How can a hobbiest get all his equipment & know how etc without coming into contact with anyone who would influence him? Or even know there is a competition!?!?

 

[Iain Sutherland]

ADA claims IAPLC is a contest between hobbyists, but that's not the case.

So its my hobby, next year i start a business and so its no longer my hobby?

Or perhaps you want me to do the home work here to back up my point?

that is the idea of making a point, when someone else disagrees YOU have something to substantiate it.

You can read, right. So just go on the ADA dealers web sites and see who they are. Then see what is their grading, year after year.

i think your dislike of ADA is clouding your judgement again aqua, the fact that the same names appear in the top 100 makes perfect sence and not based on a business decision.

It is un fare to compete in the same contest against people that live from aquascaping, because of their access to unlimited resources, customers orders that drive the production of aquascapes on a large scale and of course the infinite amount of time to do just aquascapes.

well we best make sure all retired and wealthy people dont compete either as they have all the time in the world and lots of money. As we all know its money that makes a good scape...zzzzz

Since you mention motor sports have you ever seen anyone random even an owner of a formula 1 car to participate against professionals?

well the start up cost of around $1billion its obvious joe bloggs isnt going to be entering but there is of course the likes a sauber, gene haas etc... they have no history in formula one but do have the budget to try and compete.

IAPLC have no categories of any kind and their judging rules are smeared by the personal opinion of every single judge, which is the perfect condition for electing who ever they want.

that is kind of the idea of judges, so there is a wide selection of opinions as interpretation of art is different to different people.

And then with all the honesty you can show to your self compare their works against many others.

my point exactly!!

Dont get me wrong im sure iaplc isnt perfect and will always come under scrutiny. I dont think placements are finacially motivated, france having 6 people in top 60... are ADA sales really booming in france to prove motivation for these placements??
I think it makes perfect sence that the top scapes have ada tanks and products, they are the market leader in quality aquascaping products after all. Just because someone is local and active in a group like aquagreen's community of scapers doesnt mean they get bonus points for natural association with a distributer!

Either way i look forward to your breakdown of the last few years on top 20 and their affiliation with ADA.

 

[orchid]

Yep, sorry guys, I am never participating to your forum, but I follow it since long time now. As one of the guy who reach his goal, as a frenchy guy, we still have no ADA distributors, ada is a car rental is France , and we don't give importance with that point...and no one of us is working for them. The first one, the big winner, is hardly winning his life by doing aquarium maintenance, the second his chief of an hospital service, the third is photographer, the fourth is student, the fifth is teacher in school. I stop under top 50 because after it continue. No one if us is working for ADA , we just had work collectively and we also work a lot with our own targets. We never follow the trends and love to do our nature aquarium for our own house and familly before doing a one shot aqua for IAPLC. It's perhaps why we get this high progression this year with the evolution...That we all liked even before we get the result. Hope we will confirm it next year, w but nothing is sure without hard work. And honnestly nothing to do with ADA ...till now...

 

[TOO]

The first one, the big winner, is hardly winning his life by doing aquarium maintenance, the second his chief of an hospital service, the third is photographer, the fourth is student, the fifth is teacher in school. I stop under top 50 because after it continue.

Thanks for this input, Orchid. Finally some kind of evidence.

Thomas

 

[viktorlantos]

Since iaplc had a long history and both the entrants number and overall popularity grown so much this is normal that many serious hobbist end up working for the industry or open up a shop. They burn so much time with the hobby, after a time a decision comes to change it or make some money from it for living. Or divorse come They do not have advantage, but many of them provides continous high quality work and take the contest seriously. Still from over 2000 entrants only a small portion comes from shops as they usually do not have time anymore to dedicate time and effort to a winning scape. From my country we had over 50 entrants thanks to the hard work on promotion in the past years. Less than 10% of this came from shops. And individuals beaten up both of them this year including me

I am not sure yet on the new rule change. This was a creative contest before and now i read more nature like, fishy context. 50 points for nature like scape which works perfectly for fishes vs 100 for overall impression what was before concerns me that we will loose some creative power and minic false biotope like areas. Iwagumi is out then? Or forest scape? We will see all over microsorums and crypts? Iaplc not just extended the possibilities in the past what you can do in your tank, but many new plant arrived and used by the hobby because of this. Meanwhile i agree to not have fish which mimic birds and all over tree scapes, this is a radical change in rules

 

[Trevor Pleco]

I understood that the new judging criteria was used this year, so surely the proof in the pudding will be revealed when we see the winning scapes, so look forward to this...

Out of interest are there any UKAPS folk going to the ADA party this year, I'm thinking of possibly combining it with a work trip ?

 

[orchid]

Yep... I don't read the new rules like you Viktor. When I see the name in the top 27 this year. We some new guys, but not so much... I think that good taste doesn't belong to anyone of us, but kitch aquarium with artificial things wil be out. I The spirit of ADA belong to ADA and nature aquarium philosophy also. Takashi Amano told to all the world last year what was his best "favorit" aquarium, and create the Sumida award especialy for this...This was very strong sign... Hidekazu ranked 55 last year... and he is 3rd this year..

If I wanna be judged by only one I would dream of being judge by Amano, no one of us can illegitimate him. So the best price in 2013 was the SUMIDA AWARD. Many many people respect so much the work of Mr Hidekazu Tsukiji. A lot more than the number 5 or 3 ...wich normally would never had reach that rank in 2013... first because the plants was full of algae. The new rules ask and effort with plants but to not only when the picture is taken.. but that judge can imagine for a long term maintenance also, doesn't mean only crypto. Really not, you will see rotala, and other classic plants and new plants in the top 27 It sound that making a tree with Ceratopteris and without any fish will not rank again, because it look like that one day not two.. Doing this is really easier than thinking an aquarium to be kept for a long time. Even HM or UG can be kept a long time... So I think the judge are not stupid, they knew nothing about nature aquarium philosophy and that's why they had put some bad scape like n°3 , N° 5 and also cactus in the top 10 last year and this is over. With good explanation they will vote better.. more chance to real nature aquarium who can think aquarium with a real philosophy and not only one photo shot. Amano realize aquarium for minimum of 2 or 4 years, and older they are stronger they look. We can do it every year, we can change all , but think about this spirit. Not only with crypto or anubias

 

[viktorlantos]

I have to add another comment from Karen Randall to this discussion here. She mentioned that even if the new rules were in place this was not used the way as it should. Otherwise the top 100 would be really shaken up this year too.

The longer term setup is also interesting. Since they kind of force you to do new layout every year. So if we want to see fresh tanks than this point is kind of pointless. Many tanks can be done on longer term. It is up to the guy who do the maintenance work. Look at Tom Barr dutch kind of scape. Full with fast growers. But the general look even after many plant replacement is the same a while ago. I am sure Tom could do this for another 2 years without any problem

ADA Gallery every year new layout. Some are older but in general this isn't the goal there too.

So maybe for some tanks the short lifecycle worked only, but honestly almost every tank can go for years with a good crew behind it.

Will this means the race for the record entry number ends and the real long term maintenance is the goal?
Will it means also that 2-3 months scapes could not win anymore? Would make sense to get some advantage for those which are older.
But then you only can enter with fresh scape made in the contest year.....

 

[Tim Harrison]

Good point Viktor, it does seem kinda contradictory. However, I think that the answer is in the subtle phrasing of the actual rule...The key words are "chance" and "expression"...
② Long-term maintenance of layout work (Maximum 10 points)
・Chance of maintaining the aquascape for a long period of time
・Screening of whether or not the expression shown in the layout photo is a temporary one which was produced only for photographing.

So I guess what it means is that the scape doesn't actually have to be that old, just apparently maintainable over the long term.

With regards stifling creativity, I don't think the new rules will limit it, maybe just channel it in a different direction...more toward the original ethos of NA which I personally welcome.
But I perhaps should also mention that although I'm not a fan of the diorama school, I fully respect and admire the skill, creativity, and dedication it takes to produce a convincing example...
I just think it should have its own category, so that like can be judged against like. After all diorama and NA styles have diverged so markedly they've become apples and oranges.

Finally, as for ADA business associates scooping the top prizes...like most of us should worry...with the obvious exceptions, it's not like we're in with a shout anyway If it were true what's the worst that can happen I get pushed down the rankings from 2000 to 2020

 

[Stee61]

pah! wrote along reply but managed to delete it.....

to sum up....
Surely everyone has access to the equipment required to make an awesome 'scape. Once your tech is sorted (do plants care if you've got ADA scissors?) the real battle is your creative skills in ticking all those scoring boxes.
Success breeds success so perhaps the guys in the business that do well in the comp are there because they did have a talent for it initially.
BUT perhaps an amateur category should be made available to represent the hobbiest. Also a fantasy category, so those that do like to indulge in floating rocks, cotton wool waterfalls and outlandish scenes can go wild without worrying too much about also ticking the more ( in these cases) stifling scoring categories like long term maintenance.

Big respect to anyone that does enter btw. Ive never been one for competitions in anything Ive done. If Im happy with it thats good enough for me, I dont need public approval )

 

[Trevor Pleco]

welcome to UKAPS !

Big respect to anyone that does enter btw. Ive never been one for competitions in anything Ive done. If Im happy with it thats good enough for me, I don't need public approval )

My intension with entering IAPLC is not for 'public approval' and I'm sure I speak for most of us. Sure if your scape comes off that's a bonus and boost to your hobby and scaping ego. More importantly the comp gives you that goal and deadline to work towards and the challenge of improving year by year. I'm not sure many of us would have the self discipline and motivation to manicure scapes to such standards without it or take such trouble to take one good pic. I guess until you have spent a year or two planning and preparing your work, followed by the final prep and count down to taking your final pic and then waited several months for the result, it's difficult to fully appreciate the experience.

 

[flygja]

Release of IAPLC results and rules always manages to ruffle some feathers here and there. Great to read all the comments so far. If you don't like the premise of it, then don't join. And don't bash it either. The IAPLC goes with the spirit of what Amano and the ADA think is good aquascaping. Which is the same with all contests which involve senses (sight, sound, taste, smell, touch) rather than data (fastest, strongest, biggest, etc). Even in sports like diving or gymnastics. Judges decision final. Unless they're blatantly cheating or designing the rules such that a particular group will always succeed more than others.

Personally never liked the dioramas. I applaud their creativity, but I'll never have a fake waterfall or a printed cloud background in my house. Is the sandy path aka river considered a diorama? Or NA style?

 

[George Farmer]

Hi all,

I think it's an interesting move, and one that may have been brought about by feedback regarding a somewhat recent 'diorama' backlash. If so, I think that's good...

A point of note. When I judged the 2008 AGA contest, with Amano on the panel too, his favourite 'scape was a diorama...

Whether or not the judging will really reflect the 50% marks going on "Recreation of natural habitat for fish" - I doubt it. This makes it a biotope aquascaping contest, and I can't see the Top 27 all being accurate biotopes. My personal opinion is that it's a bit of a knee jerk reaction, or maybe something as simple as poor translation from Japanese to English.

With regards the hobbyists vs. pro topic brought up - the two aren't mutually exclusive. Quite the opposite in fact - 99% of the pros I know are also passionate hobbyists...

Cheers,
George

 

[Tim Harrison]

① Recreation of natural habitat for fish (Maximum 50 points)
・Evaluation of layout work as healthy fish habitat
・Expression of underwater environment in layout work
・General condition of fish and aquatic plants in layout work
・Evaluation of layout work if corresponding type, size, physiology and ecology of fish

I kinda take the above on face value...
It is possible to produce a healthy fish habitat without it necessarily being a biotope, most of us do it with every scape we produce.
The expression of an underwater environment...that's obviously one in the eye for the submerged terrestrial diorama...no more submerged mountain ranges and floating forests.
The next is self-evident can the scaper grow healthy plants and fish.
The final criteria is a bit unclear, and there maybe something lost in translation as George suggests. But distilled, I read it as...are the fish an appropriate choice for the scape, especially in terms of type and size. Again the scape doesn't necessarily have to be a biotope to fulfill this requirement.
As for physiology and ecology - that could well intimate a more biotopic approach to judging, but in fact I think it's another one in the eye for the diorama...no more fish-birds (physiology) flying over mountain ranges (ecology)...