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Growing Lilaeopsis NZ (HELP needed)

elettrone

Member
Joined
22 Feb 2013
Messages
55
Tank details:

Juwel Rio 180 (180 liters)
Filter Eheim Professionel 3e 1200 liters/h(4 months cycled)
1x 45W JBL Ultra Solar 4K neon (10 months old 8hrs/day)
1x 45W Dennerle Amazon Day 6500K Neon (10 months old 8hrs/day)
Fert soil by JBL covered by brownish ceramic quartz 5 to 15cm
Ruwal 20W UV lamp 24/7 (started when i introduced the fauna)
130 liters 100% osmotic water added with "Sera Mineral Salt" to get:
KH 4
CO2 fert to get:
PH 6,7
Temp constant 25°
Water tank has rougly 4 months of cycling atm
Fauna added 1 week ago: 15 Amano Shrimps, 15 Otocinclus Affinis, 6 Corydoras Panda*, 10 Paracheirodon Axelrodi*

*Fishes that got transfered from a MUCH smaller tank which i dismissed.

Issue: i made two attempts at growing Lilaeopsis Novae Zelandiae(LNP) with partial success.

1st attempt was with uncycled tank same water and lightining conditions(Started out with 6.5hrs and increasing up to 8 in 4 weeks): 1st week plants adapting, 2nd week plants sprouting really fast, 3rd week plants doubled or even tripled but sprouts were brownish rather than healthy green then green silk algae infested for some reason(uncycled tank?) so i removed the flora, turned off the lightining and left some leaf to rot for two months to give time to the filter to grow more bacteria.

2nd attempt 10 days ago changed 80% of the water with osmotic added with the same Sera salt, started out with 5hrs of light with 8hrs target in 4-5 weeks, planted again LNP and sprouts are getting brownish again.

I dont get what am I doing wrong, my hypotesis are several:

1) Bad light: the T5 tubes have worn off after 10 months and the light quality is insufficent.
DOUBT: manufacturers(both JBL and Dennerle) claim their tubes have long life: from 10K to 15K hrs and don't need to be replaced every year. Truth or lie?
2) Insufficent light: there are not enough watts to allow a sufficient growth.
DOUBT/DISPROVEN: while LNP prefers stronger lighining 1)if there wasn't enough light it wouldn't grow three times in just three weeks and 2) to disprove this point i built a plateau on the left (see photo) so that the LNP in that area is way closer to the tubes compensating for the lower lighitning IMG_1790.jpg

3)No liquid ferts: i haven't started fertilizing yet as i was waiting for plants to show signs of growth before starting Seachem basic protocol.
I've only been dosing some Flourish Excel as suggested by the retailer where i usually get aquarium stuff to boost plants intial growth and avoid algae infestation(? doubtfull but i didnt think trying would hurt)

Note: the water is crystal clear, the entire leaf(new sprouts) becomes brownish and it's not spot algae nor BB, the old leaves are healthy green and show no signs of decay or illness, the tank glasses do not show the typical brownish film that forms when lightining is bad somehow(i had this issue with Juwel T5 Highlite original tubes, after 10 days everything was brownish, glasses plants that were supposed to be fast growing would just turn brown and stop growing).

Conclusion: at this point i'm accepting any kind of hint to straighten up the situation before it gets too late, thankyou.
 
Although never growing L NZ myself, i believe the secret to its success is plenty of co2 and Fertilisers.

Why wait till you see growth to fertilise? Its like saying, "Ill wait till I'm as full as a bull, before I start eating"

Look into EI dosing and pressurised co2 injection.
 
3)No liquid ferts: i haven't started fertilizing yet as i was waiting for plants to show signs of growth before starting Seachem basic protocol.
I've only been dosing some Flourish Excel as suggested by the retailer where i usually get aquarium stuff to boost plants intial growth and avoid algae infestation(? doubtfull but i didnt think trying would hurt)

I would say this is your main issue. Why are you not feeding your plants? You seem to be dosing CO2 in liquid and gas form. You need to be giving the plants lots of ferts and doing big water changes. The other issue might be not enough CO2, don't know how much you are actually adding. You're lights if anything are a little on the high side. Also it doesn't matter how long you've been running those t5. There output only drops something like 5% every 30,000 hours (that's guessing from memory).
 
I'll start with half dose to be on the safe side with Seachem ferts and see the results.
About CO2 i'm more worried about fishes, i rly don't want to suffucate em as i don't have a digital PHmeter with electronic valve to shut it off automatically.
From what i've seen from kh-ph charts when u have 4kh and 6,6ph you have the maximum allowed co2 in your water before fishes start choking...so i wanted to have a small margin to work with.


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1) no, tubes last for years. Unless the tank is really dim your tubes are fine. (manufacturers myth)
2) definitely not, the opposite it fact.
3) almost certainly part of the problem. Start using a complete fertiliser like tropica specialised or look at EI dosing low tech.

(i had this issue with Juwel T5 Highlite original tubes, after 10 days everything was brownish, glasses plants that were supposed to be fast growing would just turn brown and stop growing
This is not the lights fault it is the balance between quantity of light, nutrients and co2.

If you dont wish to add pressurised co2 then you need to reduce your light intensity. If possible move the lights higher above the tank, remove a tube, add floating plants, take off reflectors or turn one round to block light.
You may also need to look at your flow and distribution but lighting is your main issue that needs resolving.
It would also be a good idea to continue dosing liquid carbon daily prior to the light period and ensure regular water changes to keep the tank clean.

It would also be well worth you reading through the tutorials on the home page and use the search function for 'brown algae' ;).[DOUBLEPOST=1402150871][/DOUBLEPOST]just seen the additions... same advise but increasing co2 injection and distribution is the other option.
 
There are few things i don't understand, from what i've read from several sources LNP needs as much as 0,8-1 Watts per liter while i have about 0,5-0,6 and you are saying i've got too much light? This really confuses me.
I think i made it clear that i have a pressurized co2 system i just need to understand how much co2 i can dose without hurting the fishes: low tech tanks have no co2 and low lights...or am i wrong?

To sum it up i should increase co2 and add liquid ferts.
The latter i can do, about co2 i'm not certain...
Seachem are expensive but atm that is not the issue till i can keep it simple.


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There are few things i don't understand, from what i've read from several sources LNP needs as much as 0,8-1 Watts per liter while i have about 0,5-0,6 and you are saying i've got too much light? This really confuses me.
I think i made it clear that i have a pressurized co2 system i just need to understand how much co2 i can dose without hurting the fishes: low tech tanks have no co2 and low lights...or am i wrong?

To sum it up i should increase co2 and add liquid ferts.
The latter i can do, about co2 i'm not certain...
Seachem are expensive but atm that is not the issue till i can keep it simple.


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No, you do not have too much light. But if you continue to use these lights, you must increase your Co2 and Ferts, otherwise these become a limiting factor.

Without carbon to grow and fertilisers, your plants are in turmoil. The light is forcing them to grow but they cant.
 
Ok i understand that reasoning but why you say "these lights"? I consider myself a newbie so please try to elaborate so that i get things crystal clear. And btw thanks every one for the feedback.
And with Kh 4 how much can i really push the ph(co2 concentration) without hurting the fishes? should i lower the kh further?


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These lights meaning 2 x 45w on 180ltr tank, this is sufficient light for nearly all plants as long as other requirements are met.
LNZ doesnt need lots of light, i have grown it for over a year low tech (11w CFL) in a shrimp tank, its just a shame the shrimp like it as much as i do.

As a basic rule, if you have issues with growing plants/algae then the best first step to rectify is to reduce lighting. Light is the driving force that makes the plants demand ferts and co2 to grow. Reduce the light and the demand for nutrients diminishes so the balance starts to be rectified.
If you cant reduce the light intensity you need to address nutrients and distribution.
As you run a PH meter you cant really do a PH profile which is usually a helpful course of action. Instead i would suggest leaving your co2 and lights off for a day and then measure the PH, this is your tank resting. Then set your ph meter to maintain a drop of 1ph during lights on from that resting point, ensure the drop has happened before the lights come on.
If the flow in the tank is good and your adding ferts then you should see a improvement quite quickly. As a high tech tank you should be doing a minimum of 1 x 50% water change a week, while you have issues then 2 or more would be best.
 
Errr no i dont have a ph meter, i use the JBL high precision test to check it...and also the Dennerle long term co2 test and it's dark green actually, which means i should be safe increasing co2.


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I'll start with half dose to be on the safe side with Seachem ferts and see the results.

there is no reason for doing this, id suggest you just start doing the full amount. Generally the dosing instructions on premixed ferts are pretty lean anyway.
Are the seachem ferts the individual bottles.. Phoshorus, iron etc or the old style flourish? If its flourish this will be missing NPK nutrients.[DOUBLEPOST=1402155335][/DOUBLEPOST]ok sorry i miss read that. Running a PH profile is very helpful then. Test the tank prior to the co2 being on, then every 30 minutes through the light period. You should have a ph drop of 1 before the lights come on which should be maintained through the light period.
Does your co2 run a solenoid on a timer?[DOUBLEPOST=1402155412][/DOUBLEPOST]
.and also the Dennerle long term co2 test and it's dark green actually, which means i should be safe increasing co2

yes, you want a nice lime green as soon as the lights are on.
 
there is no reason for doing this, id suggest you just start doing the full amount. Generally the dosing instructions on premixed ferts are pretty lean anyway.
Are the seachem ferts the individual bottles.. Phoshorus, iron etc or the old style flourish? If its flourish this will be missing NPK nutrients.
Uhm i guess it is old style, i can post the images to be sure, individual bottles they are yes...
Seachem might be expensive and whatsoever but it is easy to find where i live and i can't say the same thing for other manufacturers so i'd rather stick with Seachem for now.
Atm i have Flourish excel, potassium, iron, trace and flourish supplement.
9u6y2eha.jpg


My co2 runs 24/7 as i said i dont have a phmeter with electronic valve.
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e3u5y3yb.jpg

This is what my co2 system is composed of, pretty simple indeed.

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Last edited:
Also changing 50% water a weeks seems pretty extreme but i will try and read the links you posted.


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adding a solenoid would be a very good investment, they arent too expensive...
then you can run it on a mechanical timer to turn co2 on 2 hours before your lights and off about an hour prior to lights off.
Not only will this save you money on co2 your fish will also appreciate it as during lights off plants consume oxygen and produce co2, if your not careful your fish may be suffering during the night.

when plants are running high tech they produce a lot of waste, if you dont remove this waste algae will thrive. There is no such thing as to much, too frequent or too bigger water change on high tech tanks.
When starting a new tank 50% daily is the standard, moving to bi-daily, twice weekly etc High tech is high maintenance.
You cant read enough... this just scratches the surface but covers the basic knowledge you need.
http://www.ukaps.org/index.php?page=setting-up-a-higher-tech-planted-tank
 
This way the ph will be going up and down day/night by a significant ammount or am i wrong?
Is this a good thing for batceria in the filter and life in general in the tank?


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Thanks, i'll be off buying a solenoid early next week and try all the hints posted.
I'll give you feedback on the results as i get any.


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Also changing 50% water a weeks seems pretty extreme but i will try and read the links you posted.

This gets rid of the plant, and fish, waste that has built up from you turbo boosting the plant growth. It resets you're tank. You can do a big 50% w/c then siphon new water back into tank through an air hose over a couple of hours depending on the tank size. The other option would be to do 2x25% or 3X20% water changes through out the week if that is easier.

You can pick up a cheap ph pen off ebay that will do a much better job than the JBL high precision test.
 
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