BBA and liquid carbon

[ghostsword]

Would dose easycarbo at water changes diluted with a spraybottle, this works on wood and on rocks, but on plants I was just cutting them.

Stable co2 is the key. The issue I had was that plants take long to react to a change, making it easier for one to become impatient and try something else. That was my biggest fault.


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[Westyggx]

Ok I'll give it a go, worth a try eh! Thanks alot.

 

[danmil3s]

so all was going well i lowed the light spot dosed and removed the the worst affected leaves. my tank was looking better than ever. there was still a small amount of BBA and on my micro sword that's putting out a runner, but the the BBA spreads along the runners after the new growth killing before it gets any hight. then disaster two days running i had issues with co2 levels caused by various bits coming lose. so now the BBA has come back with a vengeance. this time i want to get rid of it all im going to do a 5 day black out.I'm doing a %50 water change as i type then ill screw the panels i used for the BGA back on. im on the verge of giving up selling my t5s and just getting some t8s and going low tec. i just hate to admit defeat.

 

[CeeJay]

Hi danmil3s

im on the verge of giving up selling my t5s and just getting some t8s and going low tec. i just hate to admit defeat.

Lots of people still run hi tech with T8's. In fact that's what I plan to do when my T5 ballast blows up. Gives you loads more wiggle room, as they say. Less CO2 required as well
I'm sure T5's were invented by the devil himself . Everything has to be spot on all the time with very little margin for error.

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

issues with co2 levels caused by various bits coming lose. so now the BBA has come back with a vengeance

Remember on though what was said earlier, improving plant growth also improves algae growth so be careful not to have a knee jerk reaction and immediately blame the co2. It may be that you have just improved conditions for growth all round.

I run my tank on 3xT8's 70watt in total and grossly underestimated their power. At first I allowed for it in my dosing and erring on the side of caution with ferts. This turned out in plant deficiencies and I find now that just short of full EI dosing is what's needed to keep my plants happy.

What is the problem with your co2 I don't think we got round to that? What set up have you got for administering the co2? Maybe if we get to the bottom of why the co2 is fluctuating we could help prevent that.

In my particular case, I have a very effective de-gassing trickle filter that I can't seal. The upshot of that is in the morning my DC would be bright blue when after the dark period it should if anything be quite yellow I guess so the tank is doing the opposite of what would be normal. I have DIY running 24/7 which keeps the DC green in the morning and 3hrs before my FE kicks in to smooth over the lighting period where the DIY wouldn't be able to keep up.

My biggest fluctuations occur when one of the 2 DIY bottles needs changed in which case I just leave the FE 24/7 for a couple of days until the new bottle kicks in full strength. Also having a decent clip out helps on days when co2 levels are low. I also find stepping up dosing creates a higher demand. I had my co2 sorted until I stepped up the ferts then I realised I had to step up the co2. All of which caused fluctuations and BBA.

Sorry for hijacking your post a bit but it's still in the same vein One thing I do wonder though is how much affect natural light plays a part in co2 levels. My tank is near a patio door and with the recent hot weather morning daylight was hitting the tank even through the blinds I was getting up to my plants bobbling like crazy so maybe I should really have my FE on from daylight hours if anyone thinks it;s a good idea?

Just remember though mate I got obsessed with lighting and it took a lot to switch tubes off and reduce the lighting but there's nothing wrong with that. Better having a low light work of art than a highlight mess. Going back to one of your earlier posts you were going to turn things down a give yourself a more room for error until you got things sorted. Still sounds like a good idea to me, that's how I managed to start getting on top of it anyway.
I took inspiration from one of James (planted tank) pictures when I realised that it was created and maintained with less watt per gallon lighting than mine.

 

[Stephan]

Hi Guys,

I've only recently joined this forum and I've been reading up on different topics so excuse me for chipping in here...
To my experience there's one very effective remedy for bba. You want to get hold of some Crossocheilus reticulatus. They look similar to the Siamese Algae Eater (Crossocheilus siamensis) but with a black dot on the base of the tail fin. Get some very small ones. They'll get rid of your bba in no time. These fish work like a charm. The only drawback with them is when they get bigger and with all the algae gone, they will start to nibble on the plants. Mind you, that's only after a couple of years or so. I have posted a photo of them in a recent post in my blog. I also got some of these algae recently and I thought I'd try Crossocheilus siamensis but so far, no joy. I'll give them a couple of weeks to work on the bba but I think I'll introduce some small reticulatus after that to document the difference. I'll keep you posted!

Cheers,

--Stephan

 

[CeeJay]

Hi Stephan
Welcome to the forum

To my experience there's one very effective remedy for bba. You want to get hold of some Crossocheilus reticulatus.

This may solve the problem of getting rid of BBA once you've got it, but our goal is not to get it in the first place.
I read your blog with interest, and I don't mean to rain on your parade, but there are some howlers in there that need addressing.
Some of the most obvious being:-

Quote

"First of all, it is wise to keep your water looked-after with controlled levels of macro-nutrients, including phosphorous and nitrogen. It is even a prerequisite to an algae-free aquarium".
Unquote

I couldn't agree more

Quote
"It is important to consider that your plants need these nutrients to grow and compete with the algae".
Unquote

I couldn't disagree more

Quote
Kaufmann gives a short instruction on how to cure an infestation with blue-green algae (Cyanobacteria). I am sure this can be adapted to fight other types of algae as well, should you need a fast remedy:
Change 70% of the water
Install an aerating pump with a diffusor
Turn off all CO2
Darken your tank by covering it with a blanket, cardboard etc.
Only if small fry is present, feed every two days under dim light
If infestation is severe, change 50% of the water again after three days
after 6 to 7 days, return to normal lighting
On the following two days, change 90% of the water on each day.
(Kaufmann states that if you forget or omit step 8, the whole exercise will be futile.)"
Unquote.

This may be one way to get rid of BGA, but that's a lot of work
All I did when I had a BGA outbreak in a newly set up tank was up my Nitrates. It was gone in 4 days. Followed by a huge water change .

Quote
"Healthy and vigorous plants will outcompete alge because they bind free nutrients and create an environment which is favourable to their growth".
Unquote

I disagree with this too
Plants will never outcompete algae for nutrients. Period.
Algae's nutrient requirements are far less, by some order of magnitude, than that of the plants so if you think you can starve the algae, your plants will be a long time dead before that happens.

I have experimented myself over an extended period of time with excess nutrients (40ppm N, 60ppm K & 10ppm PO4 per week), and all I got was mental plant growth and definitely no algae

We have a resident 'planted tank lunatic' round here (in the nicest possible sense), who has carried out experiments with levels of nutrients that would make your eyes water and the condition of his tanks have to be seen to be believed.
He may be along soon to chip in, and he has far more experience than me

 

[Stephan]

To my experience there's one very effective remedy for bba. You want to get hold of some Crossocheilus reticulatus.

This may solve the problem of getting rid of BBA once you've got it, but our goal is not to get it in the first place.

You won't get bba if you have these fish in your tank. That's kind of the point of keeping them. Obviously, if you introduce them to a tank where bba are present, they'll polish those off first thing.

This may be one way to get rid of BGA, but that's a lot of work
All I did when I had a BGA outbreak in a newly set up tank was up my Nitrates. It was gone in 4 days. Followed by a huge water change .

Yes, it helps in some cases and with some forms of BGA but it is not a guaranteed way to get rid of them. Great if it worked for you though!

Quote
"Healthy and vigorous plants will outcompete alge because they bind free nutrients and create an environment which is favourable to their growth".
Unquote

I disagree with this too
Plants will never outcompete algae for nutrients. Period.
Algae's nutrient requirements are far less, by some order of magnitude, than that of the plants so if you think you can starve the algae, your plants will be a long time dead before that happens.

I have experimented myself over an extended period of time with excess nutrients (40ppm N, 60ppm K & 10ppm PO4 per week), and all I got was mental plant growth and definitely no algae

We have a resident 'planted tank lunatic' round here (in the nicest possible sense), who has carried out experiments with levels of nutrients that would make your eyes water and the condition of his tanks have to be seen to be believed.
He may be along soon to chip in, and he has far more experience than me

Actually, Chris what I am trying to say in my blog is that healthy plants will outcompete the algae. How do they compete with the algae? It may not be for nutrients in the first place but I believe that plants, as well as algae, create their own favourable environment and in a tank with healthy plants you are far less likely to get algae. I have had accidents with fertilizer dosage, and despite amazing levels of macro-nutrients (over 80mg/l of NO3), I did not get any algae but, after a while, problems started to appear with higher plants. IMHO it works much better to keep everything at a low level but hey - you live and learn. Maybe I got it all wrong. I'm curious as to the results of your 'planted tank lunatic'. I attach a quick and dirty photo of an unfinished tank. This composition of a Dutch Tank is by no means complete-I am still waiting for some plants (I promise more pics in a few weeks).

Slightly off-topic: Is there anyone in this forum who is into Dutch style tanks or are you all NA folks?

Best,

--Stephan

 

[CeeJay]

Hi Stephan

That's a lovely looking tank you have there.

I'm curious as to the results of your 'planted tank lunatic'.

Some shots of one of his tanks are here. I think it nearly qualifies as a dutch style tank too.
Whilst I have never achieved these sort of stunning results, at least it's taught me how to succesfully grow plants without growing algae

 

[Stephan]

Hats off to that! Beautiful. And I notice some degree of leaf shine as well. I have been trying to understand how this comes about. I get this in the Dutch tank but not in my discus tank despite lush growth in both of them! But I guess that's a whole different topic again.

--Stephan

 

[George Farmer]

Slightly off-topic: Is there anyone in this forum who is into Dutch style tanks or are you all NA folks?

Hi Stephan and welcome to UKAPS - great to have an experienced guy like you on board. I really enjoy your blog!

No, not all of us are NA-only folks! Personally I like all styles as long they're executed well.

 

[Stephan]

George,

Thanks for the warm welcome. I look forward to participating in this forum!

--Stephan

 

[Fred Dulley]

To my experience there's one very effective remedy for bba. You want to get hold of some Crossocheilus reticulatus.

This may solve the problem of getting rid of BBA once you've got it, but our goal is not to get it in the first place.

You won't get bba if you have these fish in your tank. That's kind of the point of keeping them.

Still havn't addressed the underlying issue. BBA tells us that we need to pay more attention to our CO2 levels/distribution. You may put SAEs in to mop up the BBA but the plants are still potentially suffering from carbon deficiency.
Beautiful tank btw. Reminds me of a terrestrial garden.

 

[danmil3s]

i think ive cracked my co2 issues just had a flare up due to the hose coming off the pump that runs the atomizer, then the next day the fx5 hose coming of the spray bar. hopeful the black out will kill it and ive learned another thing double check the hoses. if by Christmas i Havant got it sorted ill definitely be going low tec seems a lot less stressful.

 

[Stephan]

You won't get bba if you have these fish in your tank. That's kind of the point of keeping them.

Still havn't addressed the underlying issue. BBA tells us that we need to pay more attention to our CO2 levels/distribution. You may put SAEs in to mop up the BBA but the plants are still potentially suffering from carbon deficiency.
Beautiful tank btw. Reminds me of a terrestrial garden.

Thanks. That's what the Japanese say about Dutch style tanks. Never mind.

As for the BBA: I have 30mg/l CO2 and I am prepared to repeat this until I turn all blue in the face: You cannot combat BBA by way of further increasing CO2. BBA will appear willy-nilly whenever they feel like it so the discussion if SAEs are OK or not is purely academic. Let them eat the buggers and enjoy your tank.

--Stephan

 

[CeeJay]

Hi Stephan

You cannot combat BBA by way of further increasing CO2.

I think we agree on that

BBA will appear willy-nilly whenever they feel like it

I think we've established that BBA will appear when CO2 is unstable.

Let them eat the buggers and enjoy your tank.

I love this philosophy, although, after a lot of learning on my part, I haven't got any BBA so I don't need any right now
The whole point of our hobby is to enjoy our tanks

 

[Westyggx]

Hi, i have seen no change in 2 weeks of BBA it keeps coming back and coming back i am starting to get frustrated

 

[madlan]

I've managed to make a dent in the BBA on my slower growing plants by not adjusting the Co2 for a few weeks (so it's stable), Doing water changes well before the lights come on (stable Co2), double dosing easycarbo and removing infested leaves.

 

[Westyggx]

Been doing that for about 2 weeks now mate and not seeing any change at all :/

 

[madlan]

I found that I couldn’t reverse it, only stop\slow its growth. It's almost gone via spot killing using easycarbo and trimming leaves. Of all the algae issues I have had over the years BBA is by far the slowest to respond to changes.

I would keep doing what you’re doing mate; leave the Co2 alone, water change nice and early and double (2ml per 50l) dose easycarbo\excel. Give it a month and you never know

Have you got any photos of it?