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New 48" tank setup questions

Joined
23 Nov 2010
Messages
12
Hi all

Just strarted in this planted aquarium lark after a tank rebuild due to a complete strip down for a re-silicone job on a tank leak. The tank was originaly a fish only with mininal plants for 20 years with internal filters and a single T8 tube, this has now changed to a become a fully planted afair with the following equipment.

Tank 48"W x 15"D x 18"H
Lighting is two by 46" T5 HO tropical tubes from Iquatics, currently on from 1300H to 2300H
Co2 System 2kg Fire Extinguisher, coupled to an AE Design 250 Glass Diffuser via an AE Design Bubble Counter set at 1b/sec solenoid is switched on 1 hour before lights on and off 1 hour before lights off.
Fluval 305 external filter fitted with a diy spraybar (42" length of 20mm plastic conduit with 32 x 3mm holes), this gives surface agitation and flow from back to front along the full width of the tank.
Additional flow is added with a Hydor Nano 1600 (switched on and off with the Co2 System)
Heating is by a Fluval E series 300W Heater set at 25deg.
Fert Dosing is by EI
Substrate is gravel base with 1.5kg API First Layer Full Laterite topped with 45kg Argos playsand (washed)

The tank was running for two weeks with only the hardscape in to ensure all equipment functioning (bar the Co2) until plants arrived, they were delayed due to the current adverse weather.
This weekend added a 48" tropical plant set from Java-Plants, couple of questions arose when planting was completed.

Some of the background stem plant tops are in the flow of the spray bar and the more fleshy ones look to be melting in the flow, the spraybar is about 1" below the water level and angled about 15deg above horizontal to flow across the tank and agitate the surface as well as flow to the front of the tank.

The main question I have here is it best to keep the plant tops out of the flow and if so what is the best method of trimming, can the stem plants be trimmed at the top or do they need to be removed and trimmed at the bottom, some plants are rooted I asume they need topping.

A second point is regarding the Hydor Nano I have noticed when the Co2 Solenoid is switched off and the Nano stops reducing the circulation the Fluval heater shows the water temp rises to 26 deg for a short period, I take it there is no issue here just the response time of the heater to the reduced circulation.

I will be monitoring and checking plant growth and water quality over the coming weeks before adding fish and shrimps, I only have two of my previous fishes left from the original setup in a small tank a Clown Loach (50/60cm) and a rummy nosed tetra.

Any advise would be appreciated, I will sort some pictures out shortly.

Laurie.
 
hi laurie, welcome along to ukaps :thumbup:

With the stems if you eventually want a bush to be formed then you tend to let them grow to the surface and then cut them quite low, theyll divide at the ends, keep growing then you start again but youll end up with a bush. The ones you cut off can be re-planted. if the ends are melted then cut these off. What species of plant is it?

theres a guide on it here - http://www.aquascapingworld.com/magazine/Magazine/Trimmng-Stem-Plants.html

The other thing I noticed is that youve got quite a long light period, when staring a new tank i tend to go for about 5 hours then ramp up to 7 after a few weeks.

Co2 looks ok but 1bps seems quite low for a big tank, do you use a drop checker? (good drop checker guide here - http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=467&hilit=drop+checker+guide)

Also id leave the hydor nano running 24/7. theres no harm in stirring the tank constantly with it.
 
Stuworral

Thanks for the comments,
The stem plant is Water Wistreria, five plants all are showing melting in the flow from the Spray bar.
I have an AE Design Drop Checker currently showing low Co2 so I will be upping the Co2 dose to bring it in line, I did not want to put too much in to start.
I will have a try with the Hydro Nano n 24/7, just trying to get the best direction for it at the moment it does blow the plants all over as if in a gale, currently pointing towards the front of the tank all plants seem to have a gentle swaying motion so may have found the spot.

I will monitor the plants as they were a day or two longer in transit from Java-Plants and the cryts had all lost their leaves when opened, planted the roots and stem in an attempt to save them. Similar with the red ivy only a couple of leaves on the stalks I may have to replace these plants when the weather improves.

Laurie Chatterton
 
Guys

Just a query on the DC I am using http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ae-desi ... -1231.html

The AE website destructions say to use 3 drops of reagent with Tank Water.

The Supplied Reagent (UP Aquarium Supply) on the bottle says 5 drops of reagent with Tank Water.

Yet reading the turotrial and forums here the recomendation is to use 4DKH solution not Tank Water.

Which is the best method, to bin the reagent supplied by AE and get some BB and 4DKH or use the supplied reagent with 4DKH if so do I use 3 drops (AE recomended) or 5 drops as recomended on the bottle ?
 
Hi Laurie Chatterton

4dkH solution every time.
You can use the reagent you have (5 drops), just don't use tank water.
I made this mistake when I first got my JBL CO2 kit, even JBL's instructions say use tank water.
You will not get a true indication unless you use the 4dkH solution.
 
Hi Laurie, and welcome to ukaps :D

As Ceejay says, go for the 4dkH in the drop checker. Once you have that right, and as long as their is no livestock in the tank, ramp the CO2 right up so the DC goes yellow to help the plants recover from the travels. You'll then have to gradually reduce the CO2 back to lime green in a few weeks when you come to add the livestock.

I'd agree with Stu on the 5 - 6 hr initial photoperiod, and have the CO2 switching on a couple of hours before the lights ( maybe more if you have alot of surface agitation ) and off a couple of hours before lights off.

In my experience, you can be fairly brutal with the wysteria, and it will grow back strongly.

Tony
 
All the guys advice is spot on - turning up the gas will get your plants growing much faster, make the most of your fish less tank to experiment just how much gas you need to get the DC yellow.
You do need quite a lot of flow around the tank to distribute the gas evenly, a lot of the guys use one serious power head but, if you have more of a Dutch style tank with lots a stem plants, then I would use several smaller pumps.
4' is a long distance to cover with one pump in any case.
Personally I like to use an in line diffuser as these devises produce a very fine mist that can be seen within the tank, this in turn gives a genuine indication of flow around the tank.
Once you have read a few hundred post on the forum, you will see the same advice over & over again = lots of gas & lots of flow !
 
Thanks for that guys, I will get some 4DKH on the way home tonight, I am still playing with the Nano Pump position and the spraybar angle to get the best flow around the tank I seem to collect a lot of Co2 bubbles on the underside of the spraybar. There is a good fine mist coming from the Glass Diffuser but some of the bubbles are going behind the spraybar, I may have to experiment with the difuser position its currently 1 third in along the back towards the bottom and at the same side as the Nano Pump.

I will spend the next couple of weeks getting the Co2 right before adding the critters.

Laurie
 
Hi again

4dkh in the drop checker did the trick, getting some colour change now :D , plants are doing well the stems are trying to climb out of the tank. Still playing around with the diffuser position and the nano, thinking of getting another nano and possibly a second diffuser with a splitter, although I may try putting the diffuser under my fluval 305 intake just hope it does not begin to gurgle and splutter. Doing this may free up the nano to circulate more flow around the tank rather than trying to diffuse the Co2.

At the weekend I will up the photo-period by an hour and shift the Co2 slightly.
Current Co2 on at 4pm, lights on at 5pm, Co2 off at 10pm lights off at 11pm.
Change to Co2 on at 2pm lights on at 4pm, Co2 off at 9:30pm lights off at 11pm.
will see how the DC shows during this period for a couple of weeks before I introduce some livestock.

Currently I appear to have no algae :D but will keep a close eye, will look to get some more crypts to replace the ones that did not survive the cold when delivered.

A couple of questions regarding my 50% water changes, I have adopted the put it straight in the tank routine and invested in a 600lph pump to remove water down to the refill level. Mixer taps are set and water added, I seem to have this right as tank temp is 25C normal and 24.5 after the water change :D the question is when I dose the conditioner straight into the tank do I calculate the dose on the 50% water added or the total volume of the tank. Secondly how long should I leave the filter off before I turn it back on, heater and nano are restarted as soon as the water and conditioner is in.

Cheers Laurie
 
Hey Laurie,
Sounds like you have had loads of good advice already the only thing i would add is it may be worth bringing your CO2 on earlier say 2 hrs b4 lights so that you have the CO2 level nice and high/stable for when the lights come on and require the most CO2. This will probably help in a tank of these dimensions, most people on here opt for a green drop checker by lights on. Also don't be to keen to get the lights back on for longer as this will only add to your challenges 7hrs is great starting point. Most of my tanks never get more than 8.

I would calculate the dose of water conditioner based on the volume you put in and start the filter as soon as you can as it gets the water circulating and mixing quicker.

And have you got any pics of your set-up?

Regards
Andyh
 
Pics as promissed

Plants installed in tank on 11th December 48" tropical collection from Java Plants, they looked a bit sorry when they arrived as they were held up during the big freeze a few did not survive, the remaining ones have took very well this is two weeks after planting and they are ready for a good trim. I will need to work on the photo side these pics were taken with my phone few with flash. After trying the diffuser under my Fluval intake for a couple of days had to move it as the fluval was not happy lots of gurgling and spitting out Co2 pockets, will have to continue playing with nano position to get best diffusion. I will be doing a trim and divide on the unruly stems and possibly moving some plants around as there are a few gaps where the failed plants where, some have taken of quite bit and I will have to determine new positions for them. The Nymphea Stellata on the left is making a run for the top all three bulbs (left, mid and right) have grown at an alarming rate from just a bulb to 10, 6 and 4 inches over two weeks, must be the Co2/ferts more active at the left. So I shall keep trimming and juggling Co2 diffusion may still go for a second diffuser on the right near the Aqua-Power.

First image shows my homemade spraybar across the top rear of the tank, with the nano on the left and an aqua-power 650 at the bottom right (will most likely swop this for another nano)
IMAG0106.jpg

Drop checker and Aqua-power on right.
IMAG0105.jpg

Heater at midpoint
IMAG0104.jpg

Co2 Diffuser to left of heater, I seem to coolect a few bubbles on the underside of the spraybar, a few roots developing on the stems here too, gardening required.
IMAG0103.jpg

Nano in front of intake pointing towards the back of tank at the Co2 bubble column to disperse the Co2.
IMAG0102.jpg

As above
IMAG0107.jpg

Co2 bubbles under sparybar
IMAG0108.jpg

Stems flowing in the water flow, plenty of Co2 flowing up, must trim tomorrow.
IMAG0109.jpg

Stems trying to climb out of tank, until tomorrow.
IMAG0110.jpg

Following are pics with flash.
IMAG0097.jpg


IMAG0098.jpg


IMAG0099.jpg


IMAG0100.jpg


Cheers Laurie
 
Well guys its amazing what can happen in three weeks here is the tank today, everything is growing like mad spending plenty of time pruning and replanting stems to thicken up the background. The Stella's are amazing the shooters going for the surface can race to the surface in a day or two need to trim them to promote the bottom growth but they are stunning. The nice guys at Java Plants sent me replacements for the plants that perished when delivered pre xmas in the bad weather, that was a nice suprise, unfortunatley had to give a few of them away as my growth is so good I struggled to put them all in.

Co2 seems to be doing just fine, must get a spare FE as I would imagine its gonna expire soon, Ferts are going in as per my EI regime and the critters I have introduced are happy, 6 otto's they really do love algea, 6 rummies, 6 red phantom tetras and my trusty old clown loach along with 6 ammano shrimps to do a bit of floor cleaning. Next addition will be some MTS to tunnel through my sand substrate and possibly a second clown as a companion to my existing clown he has been on his own for years and I am not sure how he will take to a companion, he is about 5" I wonder what size to get to go with him/her.

One thing does puzzle me when I do the water change how do you guys stop the water conditioner from sinking to the bottom of the tank when added after I top up directly from the taps, I have tried diluting before adding, this helps but I always end up with some laying on the bottom of the tank on the sand looking like a blue algae film.

Touch wood the otto's/shrimps are doing a fab job on algae as apart from diatoms on my spraybar there is non to realy speak about well done the maintenance crew :clap:

Next job is to build my Co2 reactor and add a second spraybar to help flowrates, should be done in the next few weeks.

Anyhoo heres the pics from today.

IMAG0116.jpg


IMAG0117.jpg


IMAG0118.jpg


IMAG0119.jpg


cheers laurie
 
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