Low Tech Spider

[3rdTimeLucky]

Hi - newbie here. I have tried twice, unsuccessfully, to create a planted aquarium. Both times algae and maintenance schedules go the better of me, and i became disappointed with it all. I gave up, and turned it into a Malawi cichlid tank - no plants! And the more algae the better!

Well, i do like the cichlids - they have a lot of character - but i still want to be able to create a planted tank that i enjoy. I have no realised that i never really stuck to a plan. I was constantly chopping and changing - adding CO2, then stopping, adding ferts, then stopping, turning up the light, then turning it down, and mixing plants together that required completely different conditions. It's no surprise it didn't work.

So this is (hopefully) third time lucky. I've decided low-tech is best for me. If things start to go wrong, i have more time to address it. That's the plan, and hopefully i'll stick to it this time. The tank is called Spider, because my wife says it looks like a spider crawling out of a rock. When you see the photos of the hardscape you might agree with her.

The tank is a 60x60x60 cube with sump. Having this much height has been tricky to deal with. Instead os spending loads on soil to get the height, i've had to accept that (with my budget), height will have to come at a later stage when the stem plants grow.

Lighting is a single Kessil Sun LED. The soil is ADA Amazonia.

After a week of the filter running (with some excellent advice on another thread) i decided to add plants. The plants are not necessarily the ones i wanted, but the ones available at short notice. They are mostly anubias and crypts. I'll add a full list shortly.

Here are the first photos after planting. Sorry about the reflection on the glass.

Anyway, i'll add a few bits and pieces when more changes. I am sure more mistakes will be made...but hopefully third time lucky.

 

[Nelson]

Looks good to me .
Could have done with more stones/rocks to separate the substrate from the sand.

 

[3rdTimeLucky]

Looks good to me .
Could have done with more stones/rocks to separate the substrate from the sand.

Thanks Nelson. Yeah I think you're right. I have some more pebbles in another tank I could use. I haven't done it so far because, firstly, I wanted to have just one type of rock (although if the other rocks become hidden with plants, that might not be a problem), and secondly, I had intended for there to be lots of small foreground plants coming right up to the sand. I'm still undecided to be honest!

 

[3rdTimeLucky]

I've shifted a few of the plants around, mostly to try and get more contrast in leaf-shapes in different parts of the tank. The plant list so far...

Anubias barteri var. barteri
Anubias barteri nana
Anubias nana Mini
Amazon frogbit (in the sump)
Java moss
Tropica Bacopa caroliniana
Hygrophila corymbosa
Microsorum pteropus trident
Cryptocoryne wendtii brown
Ceratopteris thalictroides

The Bacopa Caroliniana was the Tropica 1-2-Grow variety, so arrived much smaller than I had expected. Hopefully they will grow quickly as I think the layout could do with some good stem plants.

I'm dosing Easy Carbo - does it mater exactly when I do it? Does it need to be just before lights on, or does it not matter if I am dosing the same amount every 24 hours?

 

[rebel]

Excellent work. You need to lift that light slightly up.

You can dose easy carbo as you ease but it's best done every 24 hours.

If you are lazy and not good at routine, then an auto doser is a great investment.

 

[3rdTimeLucky]

Excellent work. You need to lift that light slightly up.

You can dose easy carbo as you ease but it's best done every 24 hours.

If you are lazy and not good at routine, then an auto doser is a great investment.

Thanks Rebel - I can probably get the light about an inch or two higher, but that would mean it not being in the centre of the tank (due to the shape of the gooseneck). It would be slightly towards the rear of the tank (and above where most of the plant-mass is). I have turned the light down to only 5% to 15% of its maximum output (it ramps up and down). Why do you think I need to lift it a bit higher?

 

[alto]

not being in the centre of the tank - due to the shape of the gooseneck.

The gooseneck adapter will solve this limitation (click on the small photos to see it in action - I was hoping for whole tank shots but ....)

Do you have the A160W or the A360W?

Be careful with such restricted intensity as the light coverage area is also curtailed - you may be able to best visualise this in a darkened room, set lamp to various intensities & note the light fall

This close to the water, you'll get more splatter onto the lens cover so you may want to wipe this daily (especially if hard water - try a cloth damped with a vinegar solution (maybe 1 part vinegar to 4 parts water))

I'd look for some floating plants & use these to filter the light, running the Kessil at 30 - 40% (or higher, depending if A160W or A360W) - at 60cm water depth, PAR is much reduced compared to 30 - 35cm water column
You can use some cuttings from Ceratopteris thalictroides as floaters (I much prefer it's growth habit as a stem plant but it would filter the light until you find another floating plant ... you could probably float Styrofoam peanuts as well )

Your plant list looks good for startup & scape looks pretty great too

You might check flow in the tank just by adding some flake food (I don't see how filter inlet/outlet are arranged)

 

[3rdTimeLucky]

The gooseneck adapter will solve this limitation (click on the small photos to see it in action - I was hoping for whole tank shots but ....)

Do you have the A160W or the A360W?

Be careful with such restricted intensity as the light coverage area is also curtailed - you may be able to best visualise this in a darkened room, set lamp to various intensities & note the light fall

This close to the water, you'll get more splatter onto the lens cover so you may want to wipe this daily (especially if hard water - try a cloth damped with a vinegar solution (maybe 1 part vinegar to 4 parts water))

I'd look for some floating plants & use these to filter the light, running the Kessil at 30 - 40% (or higher, depending if A160W or A360W) - at 60cm water depth, PAR is much reduced compared to 30 - 35cm water column
You can use some cuttings from Ceratopteris thalictroides as floaters (I much prefer it's growth habit as a stem plant but it would filter the light until you find another floating plant ... you could probably float Styrofoam peanuts as well )

Your plant list looks good for startup & scape looks pretty great too

You might check flow in the tank just by adding some flake food (I don't see how filter inlet/outlet are arranged)

Hi Alto.

It's the A360W light, which at least gives a wider light distribution. I'll have a look at the gooseneck adapter...although I know I will have difficulty persuading my wife to agree to it - she thinks the current one looks bulky and ugly! Thanks for the tip re wiping the lens, I hadn't thought about that. There is currently no water surface movement at all - I have a sump which helps keep oxygenation pretty high.

Given my plant choices, do you still think I should get light intensity up to 40%? I've had problems with too much light before, and have tried to select plants that need hardly any light at all. Floaters are a good idea - I have some frogbit, but it was blocking the outflow to the sump (which is at the water-surface level), so for the time-being the frogbit is in the sump, hopefully helping with cycling the tank. I could try and find a way of putting a protective ring around the outflow, but I don't want to add to much "stuff" to the main tank - the point of the sump was to hide all the equipment.

The flow is pretty good. I have two x 2,000lph eheim pumps. There is an outlet on each side of the tank (back left, and back right), with two outflows next to them. All the plants sway.

My biggest issue is the white goo coming out of the wood. I know this is common in new set-ups, but it is pretty bad now. It's too soon to add any ottos/shrimp because I still have quite high ammonia/nitrites. I'm hoping the white goo will go away soon, as I'd be a bit gutted if it starts taking over. Taking out the wood to clean it isn't an option, so I think I just have to wait and hope that the goo eventually goes away.

 

[alto]

You can see the alternate Kessil mounts in this journal - I don't know if they really are more elegant than the Goosenecks (which I also have & like your wife, consider to be ugly clunky antiquities) but the lamp is no longer attached to the tank - I want one of those "floating" lamps
I wasn't much impressed with any of the mounts I looked at (& at least the Gooseneck were the cheapest )

As you've got the A360W, maybe start with 20% (as I mention, check light fall when you can - it's incredibly obvious when tank is empty (large water change))
I believe George Farmer is running his at 50% (in the linked journal) but also CO2

white goo coming out of the wood.

It should syphon fairly easy, use a toothbrush or fingers to help loosen with a narrow bore syphon tube in close proximity ... generally this is self limiting but it's quite unsightly & can be very persistent & rampant ... large daily water changes should help (as you've chosen mostly slower growing plants & non-CO2, plants likely won't uptake considerable ammonia)

You can always put up some nice looking posters etc on the outfacing glass sides, to block the unsightly goop
- or run the photoperiod when others are out ... or asleep

 

[3rdTimeLucky]

As you've got the A360W, maybe start with 20% (as I mention, check light fall when you can - it's incredibly obvious when tank is empty (large water change))
I believe George Farmer is running his at 50% (in the linked journal) but also CO2

Ok, thanks. I'll increase a little to 20% and see how I get on. At the moment my plants are fairly central and high up in the tank (the bottom and corner sections have not yet been planted), so I think the light spread is ok.

It should syphon fairly easy, use a toothbrush or fingers to help loosen with a narrow bore syphon tube in close proximity ... generally this is self limiting but it's quite unsightly & can be very persistent & rampant ... large daily water changes should help (as you've chosen mostly slower growing plants & non-CO2, plants likely won't uptake considerable ammonia)

Hmmm...ok, I was hoping my low-tech would help reduce maintenance. Is this goo stuff likely to go eventually? Is it feeding on ammonia? I have heard the Amazonia soil can release ammonia for weeks (even months)?! I hope the white goo doesn't last this long. I read somewhere online that the goo is the fungus that is feeding on various things within the wood, but when those things (whatever they are) have depleted, the fungus has nothing to feed on, and then disappears. Have you heard this?

You can always put up some nice looking posters etc on the outfacing glass sides, to block the unsightly goop
- or run the photoperiod when others are out ... or asleep

Good idea!

 

[rebel]

The goo will go; don't worry. You can brush it off or siphon if you wish.

 

[alto]

Hmmm...ok, I was hoping my low-tech would help reduce maintenance.

the large daily water changes at this stage (which are part of the ADA protocol ) are part of controlling the ammonia release & subsequent effects on cycling the tank ... tank will "cycle" faster when ammonia levels are maintained ~2-4ppm (sorry I always forget the nitrite level numbers but if you keep ammonia at this reduced level, they tend to fall into the "right" range anyway)

You can just leave tank with minimal water changes & it will cycle too, just tends to take longer - so just go with whatever suits
(ime the surrounding riffraff are always less patient)

The wood "goop" definitely originates from within the wood but it likely also attains some nutrition from the water column (though I've seen awesome "blooms" in cycled tanks with daily water changes ... but perhaps they'd've been even more awesome without all the maintenance )

I hope the white goo doesn't last this long

Shrimp & nerite snails generally clean it up rather quickly & then keep it pretty much invisible
- though in my last episode there was one piece of wood that obviously seeped mold that no one wanted to taste - fortunately it was only a small piece that I had to clean & keep clean ... I only had that scape set up for a few months & still cleaned that bit of mold weekly.

I'm not sure what triggers fungus/mold on wood, I have wood that is years old - it was already in tanks for ages when I convinced the shop owner to sell it - I've not seen mold growth on this wood ever.
Sometimes it gets put away in storage ... I did a scape last year where suddenly it developed a very decent crop of the slime ... shrimp arrived & they cleared most overnight with none visible after 3 days - LOTS of shrimp moults

 

[3rdTimeLucky]

the large daily water changes at this stage (which are part of the ADA protocol ) are part of controlling the ammonia release & subsequent effects on cycling the tank ... tank will "cycle" faster when ammonia levels are maintained ~2-4ppm (sorry I always forget the nitrite level numbers but if you keep ammonia at this reduced level, they tend to fall into the "right" range anyway)

Well my ammonia readings have been pretty constant at 2-4ppm, so that sounds good.

You can just leave tank with minimal water changes & it will cycle too, just tends to take longer - so just go with whatever suits
(ime the surrounding riffraff are always less patient)

That's good. Although I guess there comes a point where a filter is not sufficiently large to carry enough bacteria to cycle the tank? Mine's a sump with quite a lot of sponge (various densities), 500g of Fluval biological media and 2 x 100g of Purigen.

The wood "goop" definitely originates from within the wood but it likely also attains some nutrition from the water column (though I've seen awesome "blooms" in cycled tanks with daily water changes ... but perhaps they'd've been even more awesome without all the maintenance )


Shrimp & nerite snails generally clean it up rather quickly & then keep it pretty much invisible
- though in my last episode there was one piece of wood that obviously seeped mold that no one wanted to taste - fortunately it was only a small piece that I had to clean & keep clean ... I only had that scape set up for a few months & still cleaned that bit of mold weekly.

I'm not sure what triggers fungus/mold on wood, I have wood that is years old - it was already in tanks for ages when I convinced the shop owner to sell it - I've not seen mold growth on this wood ever.
Sometimes it gets put away in storage ... I did a scape last year where suddenly it developed a very decent crop of the slime ... shrimp arrived & they cleared most overnight with none visible after 3 days - LOTS of shrimp moults

I'll try and get some decent photos of it, and add it later...in a previous setup (which was one of my failures), I did find success with the white fungus. I added Ottos, nerite snails and Siamese algae eaters - but all at the same time, so I'm not sure which was the one that did the cleaning! I love SAE, but not sure I can get away with them in a 60cm cube...shame

 

[alto]

a point where a filter is not sufficiently large to carry enough bacteria to cycle the tank?

I doubt this
Sumps usually carry a lot of media for bacterial support, yours sounds more than adequate

It's possible to overstock a tank with too many large fish, feed too heavily etc for a filter to keep up but this is a very different scenario

I love SAE, but not sure I can get away with them in a 60cm cube

I wouldn't, they get big & are active fish when kept in schools (& sufficient oxygen in water) - if you've a local shop where you can pick up juveniles & shop is happy to exchange in bigger fish, you could go that route (if you're a good fish catcher )

 

[3rdTimeLucky]

I wouldn't, they get big & are active fish when kept in schools (& sufficient oxygen in water) - if you've a local shop where you can pick up juveniles & shop is happy to exchange in bigger fish, you could go that route (if you're a good fish catcher )

Ha - yes, i totally ruined a previous scape by trying to catch an SAE. Got home today to find loads of BBA on the wood. Nothing on the plants or the rocks yet. I just wish the tank was cycled so i could put in some shrimp and snail. Hmmm... I keep telling myself - "don't make the same mistakes as last time, and start changing everything...but try and get things in balance, and eventually it will come good". It's not easy.

 

[alto]

. Got home today to find loads of BBA on the wood

no fauna so you can syringe Excel or hydrogen peroxide (the usual 3% solution sold for wound care) directly onto the BBA - turn filter off for 15 min or so (as I recall)
OR
drain the tank & again, syringe/dose Excel or Hydrogen Peroxide directly onto the BBA - you can just mist (tap water in spray bottle) the plants to keep them damp, again wait ~15 minutes before refilling tank

You should see the BBA turn pinkish & DIE

 

[3rdTimeLucky]

no fauna so you can syringe Excel or hydrogen peroxide (the usual 3% solution sold for wound care) directly onto the BBA - turn filter off for 15 min or so (as I recall)
OR
drain the tank & again, syringe/dose Excel or Hydrogen Peroxide directly onto the BBA - you can just mist (tap water in spray bottle) the plants to keep them damp, again wait ~15 minutes before refilling tank

You should see the BBA turn pinkish & DIE

no fauna so you can syringe Excel or hydrogen peroxide (the usual 3% solution sold for wound care) directly onto the BBA - turn filter off for 15 min or so (as I recall)
OR
drain the tank & again, syringe/dose Excel or Hydrogen Peroxide directly onto the BBA - you can just mist (tap water in spray bottle) the plants to keep them damp, again wait ~15 minutes before refilling tank

You should see the BBA turn pinkish & DIE

I think I'm going to have to go with option two...there is a LOT of it...

Oh well, a fun Saturday morning job I think...

 

[3rdTimeLucky]

Time for an update. Cycling took about 3 weeks - slightly longer than expected, but not too bad. I added a few more rocks to break up the transition from soil to sand. I messed up the sand/substrate with a water-change, but it gives a less 'manicured' appearance i think, and so i'm actually quite happy with it. I've also added a few other foreground plants, but not seeing a huge amount of growth yet.

I suffered with loads of hair algae/BBA, but the vast majority was on the wood (and not the plants), and so the plants were mostly unaffected. Now the tank is starting to settle, the algae is generally going off, and things are starting to clean up a bit.

I regret the java moss a little - it just seems to trap all the dead algae, and is a nightmare to keep clean! Amman shrimp don't seem to be interested in the hair algae as much as i had hoped.

I've got 8 cardinals, 4 ottos and 7 amano shrimp. I had to slightly lower the pump rate as it was a little too strong for the cardinals.

Anyway, i can easily say this is my best start of a planted tank, and i'm pretty pleased. I know it will take a long time to get to my desired 'look'. Some of the stem plants are only in there to assist with the start-up, and i'll probably remove them later on for things i prefer.

 

[alto]

Tank is looking good - I also like the changes

Amanos are just not the most dedicated algae eaters - once fish are added & fish food is an option, they really dive for the meaty fish foods - I've seen mature Amano's take on fish for tasty treats

Tiger Shrimp are my fav for their algae dedication
Red nose are the best BBA cleaners

 

[AnhBui]

View attachment 89023

I am not sure about water flow circle here. Dirt, fish poop... might not be cleaned up. Perhaps rearrange inlet deeper with a hose on the left hand side of the quoted picture imo