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Is too much flow bad?

Jaap

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30 Sep 2011
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Nicosia
Hi

I was wondering if too much flow will cause plants not to grow...of course the plants dont get uprooted....so is too much flow bad for plants?

Also is too much co2 bad for plants?

Thanks
 
Sure, there will come a point where they will start to suffer mechanical damage, and will expend more energy repairing it than actually increasing biomass and growing. But I guess it's not just flow that's a factor, it's also turbulence...some macrophytes thrive in very fast flowing streams. But then again macrophytes strongly modify water flow, which in turn provides an environment conducive to growth.
 
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How does someone know he has too much flow? By adding fish to the tank and observing them maybe? Because eleocharis parvula isnt growing and some people in the forum suggesyed too much flow...
 
IMO too much co2 will damage your fish, not your plants. Maybe I'm wrong but plants will not care if there is an excess of gas in the water column.
Regarding the flow I think most of our tanks have a much slower flow that most of the aquatic habitats. The problems comes of course when plants are uprooted or when the soil is disturbed (because the soil won't be washed away down the river)... If you do not have these problems my guess is that your flow is ok. Now that I'm trying to achieve a high plant density in a high tech plant, my only way is high flow... Otherwise I get stagnant areas with poor nutrient and co2, thus problems. Different setups will have different flow patterns and velocity. Once again some fish can be affected, especially those living in stagnant waters. Just observe their behaviour.

My problems with Eleocharis were solved with frequent and hard trimming, good co2, medium light, frequent siphoning and patience...

Jordi
 
If the plants arent uprooting does high flow still cause problems?
 
I've been looking at a lot of plants we keep in there natural habitats via oline sources I've come to the conclusion that good water movent is essential in the aqurium.
 
Hi all

Lately I have been watching much more planted tank videos than pictures. This is because in just a few seconds you can understand/see much more things compared to a picture. If you watch any successful planted tank video you will see that flow velocity is sometimes strong and sometimes not at all… so why this?

Well, IMO a planted tank is like a complex equation in which there are a lot of interdependent variables. In our narrow-minded vision on planted tanks, we try to fix some reference values for each of them, but the fact is that it is much more complex than that. Once again IMO it is much wiser to pay attention to the variables which are more important on the final result, so you can focus on them.

A vast majority of the questions in forums are something like “is this light good?”, “is that flow ok?”, “is that fish stocking ok?”, “is that fert dosing ok?”, etc. (or just a help call when things went wrong, something like “how can I get rid of this algae…” which of course is more or less the same kind of question). And the most sincere and best answers are the ones saying “well, it depends on…”. But we don’t like these kinds of answers, we still prefer someone saying: if you have X problem, the solution is Y. For that tank volume you need X light, Y flow, Z ferts…

So, as you may be expecting now, my answer is: there is enough flow when the rest of the parameters are good enough. In other words, if your Co2 is perfect for the light you have, plants have enough ferts, you have the right plants for your setup, you have good and active growing, your filter turnover is enough for this particular configuration, you have loads of plant biomass (and add here whatever you already know from this forum), your flow velocity would be ok.

I guess there might be a kind a threshold/rule of thumb for flow, as there is for example for filter turnover, but once again someone will say “I run a tank like this with half the value you are mentioning…”. Of course use also common sense: blowing your plants and substrate is not a wise option, so there you have what you don’t want as flow velocity. Below this, well, it depends on… :)

Jordi
 
Is there a chance that high flow will cause brown algae in the sense that it will not allow bacteria to attach easily on surfaces?
 
HWell, IMO a planted tank is like a complex equation in which there are a lot of interdependent variables. In our narrow-minded vision on planted tanks, we try to fix some reference values for each of them, but the fact is that it is much more complex than that.
Although I like what Jordi said, I put my two cents in this discussion.
According to one study there can definitely be such a thing as too much CO2, as in this study after the CO2 concentration exceeded 40 ppm, some plants begin to suffer, and their growth rate degraded a lot. The author of this study concluded that this high CO2 concentration may "poison" some plants.

As to the flow, we all probably know that the higher the flow the thinner the boundary layer and the better the nutrient uptake rate. So higher flow means better growth for most aquatic plants. I would add that as long as the plant is able to control the position of its leaves toward the light source, the flow is OK. So the flow is too high whenever the leaves cannot turn toward the light anymore, and are just carried by the strong flow which they are not able to resist. So plants need for their leaves to be directed toward the light, so if the flow is too high, the leaves are not able to collect photons efficiently enough, and they begin to be stressed. (Vallisneria is maybe an exception, as its leaves are long and can float on the surface, so even in the very strong flow it can collect light quite efficiently.)
 
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Although I like what Jordi said, I put my two cents in this discussion.
According to one study there can definitely be such a thing as too much CO2, as in this study after the CO2 concentration exceeded 40 ppm, some plants begin to suffer, and their growth rate degraded a lot. The author of this study concluded that this high CO2 concentration may "poison" some plants.

Is there any possibility that you could link this study Ardjuna?
 
As Troi stated, too much flow can cause mechanical damage.
I had a powerhead blowing at a big anubias. The leaves that were near it got destroyed and that plant has thick leaves. I don't want to imagine if it was a delicate plant. But I am talking about a 2800l/h powerhead.
I now have an internal filter(1000l/h) in one tank that blows at an amazon sword directly. Most leaves become a mesh and get literally washed off...
And if you are fighting algae on top of it, them blown leaves are the first to get it. So yes, there's is such a thing as too much flow, especially if the flow is pointed directly at the particular plant and is not diffused first via the glass.
However, I am not sure if it will stop them from growing, but they won't look good for sure.
 
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