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Advice needed: 570L Automated, DIY, Low Tech, Planted Tank

chrism

Member
Joined
3 Mar 2009
Messages
72
Location
North Wales
Hi All,

This is my first post here… I’ve been out of the hobby for about 6 years now. Before I moved out of home and in with the wife I had 3 planted tanks doing ok. One with CO2, the others no injection. We’ve moved 3 times in the last 6 years, but are going to be purchasing our first house soon(ish). Which means I’m getting a tank! And this tank is going to be the tank I’ve always wanted, so obviously I'm excited.

It’s got to meet the following criteria:

Be low maintenance
Be able to be left unattended for 2-3 weeks
Look stunning

So this is my plan…

It’s mostly likely going to be a 72” x 24” x 18” “river tank”, with a 36” x 24” x 18” sump. I plan on using a bottom feeding weir / overflow box to fill the sump to help suck up any detritus and minimise the need for vacuuming. This will be positioned at one end of the tank, covering the whole side. The spray bar from the sump will positioned at the other end hopefully creating a continuous flow in one direction. I’m not looking for white water or a particularly fast flow, just a steady flow in one direction. Both ends will be hidden either by the unit. Or if all goes to plan, this will be a in-wall tank with sump etc. in the garage / cupboard in the room behind and so the overflow box will be behind plaster board.

I plan on using timers to do automatic water changes once a week (volumes yet to be decided). This is how I see it working in my head. I've never even attempted anything like this before so would appreciate anyone pointing out flaws in my plan!

Times are just examples and will obviously be worked out accurately nearer the time.

12:00 - Sump pump & storage tank power head turned off. Tank will drain to the top of the stand pipe, any extra volume in the sump will flow out of the overflow and into the waste pipe.

12:10 - Pump in the tank overflow box will begin pumping water out and into the waste pipe. I plan on only having this run for 1 minute, after that I believe the water should syphon through nicely until the water level in the overflow box is below the pump’s intake therefore breaking the syphon.
12:30 - Pump in the storage container begins pumping water (already at temp and conditioned) back into tank for the correct amount of time to bring the water back up to level.
13:00 - Sump pump back on and tank back to normal.
14:30 - Timer fills storage tank from mains water supply.
15:00 - Storage tank power head power on.
15:10 - Drip feeder supplies dechlorinator to supply tank for set amount of time / volume.

I'd really appreciate any feedback on these plans, although it may be a while away before I can get started on this, I'd like to get as much of the planning done and organised before hand...

Thanks in advance!

Chris Morse :)

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Personally I would not have a sump below the tank but more of a reservoir at the same level.
This type set up is only realistic if you have the reservoir (sump) in the garage but there are good advantages.
For the main display tank I would build a ply box & glass fibre the inside so it is easy to install pipe work. I would connect the tank & sump with a 32mm pipe.
If you install a vortex as the first stage you will collect large amounts of dirt before it even reaches any mechanical or biological filtration.
Having a reservoir at chest level makes maintenance so much more appealing & back flushing the system (vortex) is a fantastic way to keep things simple & easy.
Think of it more as a mini koi pond gravity fed system!
 
Thanks for your reply... Unfortunately I'm not sure I follow! I'm really hoping to be able to put the "guts" in the garage so what you've suggested is definitely an option... But I don't understand what you're suggesting! Rather than having a sump, have an additional tank at the same level hidden in the garage - yes?

How would I plumb the two tanks together? What is this vortex you speak of? If you wouldn't mind explaining it to me like I'm five - that would be great! Thank you!


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OK I will put up a basic diagram but it might not be for a day or so as I am traveling just now...

However the filter will be in the garage and the two are joined by a large bore (32mm) pipe so the two vessels have the same water level.
This is a great system, pretty much fail safe & easy to maintain.
However you can still have an overflow (surface skimming) if you want but the water does not have to flow to such a low level.
I would recommend an above water (above the garage tank) trickle filter. The trickle filter will out perform even the largest under water filter, ten fold!

So - imagine two glasses of water connected together with a tube at mid level, if you pump water from one glass to another, the levels will remain the same?

In the garage tank (as large as you like but the bigger the better) you keep the return pump, heater, a small trickle filter pump & nothing else!

What happens is the water comes through the connecting tube & is basically recirculated.

When the water comes through the pipe, the flow is immediately diffused by the open volume of water in the sump & any particles sink to the bottom of the sump & clean water is taken form near the top by the return pump.

You then have a great mechanical filter that requires no media!!
The dirt collects in the bottom of the sump to be drained away by a simply valve into a bucket, so "Bang - the dirt is gone"
Overall, a very basic design that offers huge potential for any type of set up - from community to reef!

A vortex a separate chamber & is not essential but if you are into DIY then you will want one :)
 
I like Foxfish's idea...real straightforward and failsafe in the event of power cuts blockages or pump failures. I ran a 120 x 60 x 60 tank for many years using a slow continuos drip feed from a rainwater butt with a syphon overflow from the tank. Zero water changes for years and no dramas, you could combine the two systems?
 
Thanks for the explanation Foxfish, I've never heard of that before but really like the idea - so much simpler. The automatic water changes could easily be run from the reservoir tank straight into the drain (although I am considering trying to use the waste tank water for the garden).

Chris, I had considered a continuous drip system, but felt the consensus was that larger regular more substantial water changes were more beneficial, for plants & fish? Clearly you didn't have any problems!

I could run a constant drip system with occasional manual water changes if that would be a better system... I'm in North Wales so rain shouldn't be a problem


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Chris, I had considered a continuous drip system, but felt the consensus was that larger regular more substantial water changes were more beneficial, for plants & fish? Clearly you didn't have any problems!

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Ah well on forum such as this the consensus might come from people who've never run a continuous drip...;)

Seriously though I never had a problem and think it's the perfect system for a large tank. The only issue is working out your fert dosing with water that is constantly changing but having a steady supply of fresh water makes perfect sense to me as a way of easily maintaining a continuously stable system. As you say you can always do extra if it seems needed and with a low tech approach it should be a breeze.

Here are two versions of the tank in question about 3 years apart. The bottom one has fewer stem plants because I got so tired of all the trimming..

Fishtank6.jpg
..

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I use a continuous drip in my large tank, I have a sump under the tank and an overflow from to sump to the sewer. This can run for a long time unattended. You need to make sure in case of an electrical shutdown 1) the tank doesn't drain more than the sump can store and 2) restarting the pumps works good and doesn't empty the pump reservoir before the return kicks in.
The drip gives approximately 100 lit/day, this way i don't need to do waterchanges if i don't want to. (i don't need to use a dechlorinator, i use a RO unit to feed the water, i can use the RO water alone or use both the Ro and the rest water (thus not changing the conductivity))
 
100L a day! Hmm, we're mostly likely to be on a water meter - think I'd rather do 100L a week!

So I've got two solid options here. If I can get the second tank out of sight at the same level then I like the sound of that option... Would I still be able to have the flow mimicking a river (flowing all in one direction)? Also, how would I position the pumps? Would the outputs be positioned into the 32mm connecting pipes?

If I can't hide the tank, then I think I'll go the sump route.


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If I've worked it out properly it'd be ~0.30p a day for me So that's ~£9 a month vs ~£1.20. Or ~£110 vs ~£16 a year.


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The aim is to have a balanced tank... Moderately planted, low to moderately stocked.

Once cycled I'd add fish slowly while monitoring the nitrate levels until the fish are producing the majority of the nitrates needed by the plants. So minimal dosing is required...


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So a very basic sketch to give you the concept of a gravity fed filter & trickle tower....
You can adapt as you wish, by drawing water from any point & returning where ever you want but the basic design remains the same.
I would strongly advise a ball valve to be fitted from a mains water supply and situated in the garage tank. This will guarantee stable water levels and allow for easy auto top up & water change.
The trickle tower can be a plastic box filled with bio ball with a simple spray bar directing the water down & recirculating.

image.jpg
 
I once looked in detail at a tropical fish shops auto water changer for their 500l big display tank, with sump underneath. Water from a weir in the tank flowed into the sump (not sure how many downpipes, but did make a constant gurgle noise !!!), went through the filter material in the sump (rock like stuff) and filter foam and was pumped back into the tank. There was a drain overflow in the tank and sump, which when running were not used.

Their aim was KISS - Keep it simple stupid so as any failure would no result in a flood.

They had a 200l water barrel to store the incoming water in, located out the back of the shop. Barrel was plumbed to tank using 4mm (or 1/4 inch ??) brightly coloured PVC tubing.

There was a ball valve on incoming water to stop the flow when barrel was full. Also an overflow on the barrel in case of ball valve leak/failure.

There was also a solenoid valve on the incoming water, on a timer, to the barrel that opened for a certain time each week to fill the barrel. Also controlled a peristaltic pump to dose Prime (from a 5l container !!! expensive) at the same time. Change the timer to alter prime dose and obviously allowing enough time for barrel to fill. Prime maybe technically (and risky !!!) not necessary as you could just bubble air in the barrel to remove chlorine...but not chloramine.

The water in the barrel was not heated as it is very risky (in floor wetting sense) to place a heater in plastic container in case it touches the side.

Everyday another peristaltic pump pumped X litres (something like 20litres ??) from the storage tank into the sump once a day. This pump was a detergent dispensing pump (just looked on Ebay) doing about 0.5litres per minute.

The sump had an overflow that flowed into a drain when the extra water was added.

All had worked fine for years, occasional cleaning of filter pads, refilling Prime etc.
 
Excellent thanks guys! Sorry for the slow reply, work got crazy busy for a while there.

It's good to know I'm along the right tracks and I have options. We're hoping to have found "the house" by the end of the year, so I'll start a journal thread to document everything and ask questions along the way!


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