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Very nice scape, if you want more epiphytes go for it. Why not think about attaching them yourself? I'd consider not using a UV steriliser, and think about your fish bioload. Planted tanks work differently to ordinary fish tanks. Plants and associated microbial communities will do a lot of the...

Go with the cheapest option then, Tropica Premium. But even with a high fish bioload I'd still be wary of N and K deficiencies, especially if you intend to plant heavily. Which incidentally is usually recommended

No worries, quite understand. But might be worth mentioning all in one horticultural dry fertz. We've been looking in to Solufeed for instance. Or are they difficult to come by too...

Not sure I'd use either in a tank that size, unless cost isn't an issue. Have you thought about using dry salts? https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ei-dosing-using-dry-salts.1211/ https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ifc-aquarium-fertilizer-calculator.63045/...

morphic resonance

I’ve had tanks as heavily planted as yours and needed a weeks stated TNC Complete dose every day. I wouldn’t put too much stock in online or retailer info. The later is a rough guide. Just observe your plants closely. They will tell you what they need.

@Zeus. and @Hanuman many thanks both, much appreciated

Would this be of any help? http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm

I'm sure the authors of the calculator @Zeus. or @Hanuman will be along shortly and answer your query. In the meantime, there is no such thing as a stupid question, and we're all here to help one another out, so no need to apologise :)

Clearly ADA is not an outlier though @MichaelJ, you just have to look at @Zeus. ’s. chart above to realise that. They’re all at it, just varying degrees of absurdity.

I think ADA have got the cost of R&D covered.

What's the markup on that?

The Emperor's new clothes perhaps

Thanks for this @Happi. It's what this forum is really all about. A community where folks share ideas and best practise, and then bounce ideas off one another.

Some images of your tank and set up would be helpful. Personally, I'd be trying to make life as simple as possible. At least start off with EI, and see how you go. You can tailor EI to your needs and reduce the dosage later once you're confident your plants are healthy.

Ordered mine last night. Still only £13.99 for a 1Kg pack, inc delivery.

Just watch the plants; if the growth rate slows or there are signs of deficiency just up the dose. But for reference, in a heavily planted tank like yours I'd probably find myself adding the recommended weekly dose of TNC Complete every day, 7 days a week.

That’d be one way of doing it. If you leave tap water to degas in a container overnight it’d be pretty safe to assume CO2 levels would equilibrate with atmospheric levels.

I think that's pretty much the nub of it. Aquatic plants adapted to life under water will be pretty good at absorbing gases from the atmosphere. So when they're exposed to 410ppm CO2, as opposed to 10ppm in water, via a daily water change you bet they're going to do okay, so no great mystery...

It’s an indicator and it works very well when applied with common sense.

I don’t think it works that way. Having access to atmospheric CO2 means floating plants react quicker to changing nutrient status. Thus observing leaf colour and dosing when appropriate means any potential deficiency is avoided before it becomes an issue for submersed plants

Darrel’s Duck Weed Index https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-scientific-background-to-the-leaf-colour-chart.62129/#post-612635 Or take a look at this https://barrreport.com/threads/non-co2-methods.422/

That’s a pretty jaundice view of the UKAPS team and other members. Quite the contrary, Journals are often the best place to get constructive feedback and help when things don’t go according to plan for various reasons. Not least the history is there to reference for solutions. I’ve documented...

Whilst we’re on that subject. This, not so unique idea, has already been discussed ad nauseam in two mammoth threads that differ only in title. Surely there can’t be that much more to discuss? Wouldn’t it be better to start a journal now and turn theory in to practice? Then you’ll be able to...

That's appreciated Michael, thank you. I think you have all the information and support you need to make this a great success. Personally, I'm really looking forward to a well documented journal. It'd be a great place to carry on this discussion in reference to the actual practical application...

I'd hazard a wild guess that microbial species diversity in fish tanks, and on and in humans etc, is determined by and maintained like any other insular biota through a dynamic equilibrium between immigration and extinction rates. In particular by something along the lines of MacArthur and...

Or an article on tank cycling and the role of archaea vs bacteria...😁 Although this one already posted by @Sudipta is very accessible http://aquariumkids.org/archaea/ Whilst we're on the subject, I absolutely agree with Sudipta, the microorganism communities in our tanks play a major role in...

Really? Having another moment Michael? You sure you're alright?

Well done. Look forward to regular updates through your well documented journal 😉

High light low-energy can be done if all the nutrients are locked up in the substrate. It’s how I used to run my low-energy soil substrate tanks (no CO2 or water column dosing) many years ago. However, it’s still a very fine balancing act. Algae will inevitably creep in from the edges if tank...

No not at all Michael. It’s very much commendable that you do so. And like I’ve mentioned before that’s what UKAPS is ultimately about, helping folk grow aquatic plants and to disseminate best practice. I’m sure you’d agree there’s very little under the sun that’s really new. And this thread...

Haha, feel free. It was actually Darrel that used it first. Journals are always welcome 👍

That's little unfair @Hufsa, you cant set the rules and then change them mid thread. I think the above two videos help to address the following topics and questions... I'm going to double down on my previous comment, we're back to rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic, and perhaps even trying...

And me too. I definitely think we're back to rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic....

Everyone knows London tap water is magic...:p

Not to mention symbiotic arbuscular mycorrhiza. You’re right, we still have much to learn…

Okay, I'm beginning to see why this thread is 55 pages long, composed of 1099 messages and counting. In order to discuss the pros and cons of something surely you first need to know exactly what it is you're discussing? That consensus doesn't seem to have been reached at any point in the...

That seems reasonable and perhaps the beginnings of a workable definition of lean dosing. And to be frank it's a method already used by many.

That’s great, As someone who’s spent a great deal of time helping folk out I genuinely wish you every success. But we’re still no closer to a definition of lean dosing. Unless it’s specifically growing plants in a pot in inert substrate. And dosing with a bottle of Tropica. That’s pretty vague...

My concern is that without a general consensus on clearly defined parameters, in essence a definition, lean dosing is not easily repeatable in folks tanks, let alone in experiments. And can therefore lead to confusion, problems, disillusionment and people leaving the hobby, especially those...

Would Eli be a good reference point from which to define lean dosing since the nutrient levels involved are well known?

So no general consensus yet as to a firm definition? Maybe any nutrient level lower than EI?

Sorry late to the party and don’t have time to read the entire thread. Just out of interest did anyone actually come up with a definition of lean dosing?

Or @Hanuman ?

Sorry, hope I'm not putting you off. Absolutely no pressure, honest. I'm sure whatever we come up with will be useful in one way or another ;)

It'd at least be a great addition to the tutorial section. Consider it a done deal if you're up for it :)

Yes, me too. There are far to many confounding factors to do otherwise. @Zeus. Karl, you'd be best placed to write that review, so why not give it a shot. I can help if you like.

Obviously written by someone without a Scoobies :rolleyes:

Perhaps not the best methodology, it'll probably prolong the agony. If you follow anyone's advice on this best to follow Clive's @ceg4048

If the tank was stable before and algae free, try a total reset and take it from there. Dial back all the changes - the lighting duration and fertz regime. You might also consider reducing light intensity as well. Since you altered more than one parameter at once absolute cause and effect can...

Posting a full tank shot and some close ups of the problem plants would help ;)

The definitive guide... https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ei-dosing-using-dry-salts.1211/

I guess it's allegorical. Marcelino lives on in heaven with his mother et. al.

And I guess he must have paid her a personal visit, since she doesn't believe in anything she hasn't seen...

Belief and faith are strange things. My son's religious education teacher enjoys a lively debate and they discuss all sorts in her lesson. On this particular occasion they were discussing extra terrestrials. It was her considered opinion that ET doesn't exist. When asked why, her determined...

Haha, the fixed constant, another dogmatic assumption that inhibits further enquiry. Sort of the subject of my favorite "banned" Ted Lecture...

I've often wondered about that. Way back when I first started with dirted planted tanks, it wasn't common to add fertz or even use nutrient rich substrate (just gravel). I used Irish Moss Peat capped with gravel. I noticed my Amazon Swords were suffering some sort of deficiency, after some...

Posting a pic or two along with a FTS would be a good idea. With reference to the instructions, I usually dose a weeks worth a day in a heavily planted tank, otherwise deficiencies of one sort or another start to creep in. And that's when plants become vulnerable to alage.

I've used TNC Complete, Colombo FloraGrow Pro Special Fertiliser, Tropica Specialised, and a few others. They're all good, but I keep coming back to TNC Complete.

In a mature densely planted tank I usually find myself dosing the recommended weekly amount every day.

Can you gives us some more info according to these guidelines?

Can't really remember, maybe about 4-6 mls a day. Prior to that I used TNC Complete and dosed the same amount. As an aside I observed a distinct reddening of the rotala after I switched.

@GreyFoxIndy this was maintained with TPN+

Either should be fine, a cheaper but equally as effective alternative is TPN+ from Aqua Plants Care, just add distilled water.

Try Aqua Plants Care

It depends on the plant biomass. If the tank is newly planted I'd stick to the instructions, even after a water change, especially if it's just the weekly one. As your plant biomass increases you may find that you have to exceed the recommended dose to prevent nutrient deficiencies.

That is good news :)

P&P costs ain't bad either :)

Try Aqua Plants Care. I've bought dry salts of them and they seem fine.

Darrell's Duck Weed index gets my vote too. Otherwise, it's usual to dose around 1/10 - 1/5 EI in a low-energy tank. Take a look at Tom Barr's Non Co2 Methods.

I try to use any variety that takes longer to break down. That way it should last longer, and keep the plants happier for longer too. Warm aquarium water will increase the rate of decomposition and fertz release. I just chuck a small handful in with the substrate. Much cheaper than root tabs...

Algae seem to thrive in environments rich in organics; the remains of decomposed plants and critter waste. Typically, there will be a high organic load at start up as the system and plants adjust, so it's always best to plant heavily from the get go. Or float fast growing stems to absorb the...

Seems a bit far fetched to me too...:rolleyes:

Try these guys http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/

If that's what you are looking for, try TNC Lite https://www.thenutrientcompany.com/product/tnc-lite/

Should be okay for a month or so; AS is fortified with a huge amount fertz, something like 100x EI concentration. But keep a weather eye on your plants for deficiencies all the same.

TNC is pretty much compatible with EI. But like most things the instructions on the bottle are just a guide. For instance, in my heavily planted hi-energy tanks, I dose a weeks worth every day. That way I know the plants are getting enough nutrients. Same for EI as well, the original...

Typically, the weekly dose for low-energy is around one fifth to one tenth of that recommended for high-energy tanks. The dose is small enough that ready made liquid nutrient formulations like TNC Complete can be economical to use, depending on the size of your tank, of course. Similarly, dry...

That's a great idea SF. Can I just add, lets try to keep the thread clean, with no additional comments. With that in mind, please carry out any deficiency diagnosis etc in another thread, and only post confirmed diagnosis here. And finally, please stick to the 5 step format below. 1. name of...

You're certainly not doing things by halves. This journal may help. James had an automated water changing and fertz dosing system https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/james3200s-6-5x2x2-planted-tank-update-26-06-09.571/

I'd just go for complete, it won't do any harm. Although, I often dose both complete and lite at the same time if I think my plants will benefit from the additional micros.

Looks like low nutrients, I'd dose the same amount two or three times a week, and see how you go. Hair algae pretty much confirmscan be a sign of low nutrients. Floaters have the areal advantage, they take advantage of atmospheric CO2 and are obviously exposed to higher light intensity so they...

I don't think there are any really legitimate reasons. As far as I know just the usual hokum; inorganic nutrients cause algae.

Sure, got that. Your other plants seem to be doing well so I guess generally speaking the dose wasn't that far out; H. Pinnatifida can be demanding and prove the exception to the rule. But I hope upping the dose sorts it out. If it doesn't at least you have other avenues to explore ;)

Pinholes in the old leaves of H. pinnatifida have variously been attributed to... potassium deficiency Chloride deficiency - chloride facilitates the uptake of potassium...apparently Low CO2 and/or poor flow and distribution Micronutrient toxicity (Clive would definitely disagree with this, but...

Haha...garden centres and building yards are also sources of cheap rock most of which are fine to scape with as well ;)

Many of the rocks used for scaping like Seiryu, Manten, and Ryuoh are actually all types of limestone, so you could probably use them without any real issues. They might raise TDS slightly but the frequent and substantial water changes that go hand in glove with eutrophic dosing methods will...

Awesome landscape...limestone pavement full of clints and grykes; classic karst landform. We have our own example in the Yorkshire Dales above Malham Cove, they filmed a Harry Potter scene there, Deathly Hallows...

Also...http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ei-dosing-using-dry-salts.1211/page-18#post-410682

Yep...I'm too lazy to work out the finer points of fertz dosing. There is an Amano methodology to using Amazonia but I think it involves using a system of other ADA products as well. Also the idea behind EI is that it's a simple way to ensure plants don't suffer deficiency; it can be fine tuned...

I always dose from day one, it just keeps things simple.

High-energy, when it's running, TNC Complete - at least 2mls per day in a 60 litre tank. Low-energy maybe 2 mls per week or none at all, if I'm doing things the Walstad way.

I agree with Sk3lly. It's a balancing act...and it depends on the plants you want to try and grow as well. In reality I think you need a flexible solution to lighting, duration is one part of the equation, but perhaps more important is the ability to vary intensity - whether that means raising...

The whole w/g thing is a bit old hat these days, but it's still an OKish rough guide, your lighting is perhaps low to medium light for a high-tech. 1 w/g T5 is usual for a low-energy, and IME usually only once the tank is biologically stable with plenty of plant biomass. I think EI and ready...

Hi Jamie and welcome. Your lighting is on the high side for a low-energy tank, so watch out for algae creeping in from the edges. However, if you're using carbo you might get away with it - although strictly speaking that makes your tank high-energy. Yep you can use EI with low-energy, approx...

Try Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/277-9488676-9155914?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=glutaraldehyde

Watch your plants...they will tell you what's amiss better than test kits can...but then again I guess its a skill that maybe can or can not be learnt. So much in dealing with nature is intuitive...green fingers etc...

You're probably right and have instinctively found what works for you. So if that's the case just stick with it. But the idea of EI is that it negates the need to test and your plants are never nutrient deficient so you can concentrate on the more difficult conundrums of light, CO2, flow and...

Thanks...I'm now signed up.

:) Thanks for that Darrel...funny you should recommend that since I've already read it. The figures got me thinking - again - so I Googled "soil loss in the UK" and that was the first paper on the list. It's something I haven't thought about for over a decade. It used to be on a syllabus I...