Alex J
Member
would that mean that the Scots on here would want to form there own aquatic plant society "SAPS"
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Am I still...
- Thread starter LondonDragon
- Start date
would that mean that the Scots on here would want to form there own aquatic plant society "SAPS"
Just need to find a chairman!
Alex J
Member
or chair person 
PARAGUAY
Member
Amnesty for Aquascapers... welcomed here??
Us foreigners feel a little left out now!
or chair person
Equality is rampant!
Alex J
Member
PARAGUAY
Member
No pictures of politicians pleaseAin't democracy a female canine...
Just as much as the law is a subgenus of Equus...
P.S. "hee-haw"
Until Section 50 is invoked Britain is still in the EU anyway, I don't see anyone with big enough balls at the moment to invoke it!!
Or the right haircut...Boris will do it as soon as he becomes Prime Minister
AverageWhiteBloke
Member
Of course LD is welcome in the UK as is any foreign worker. To be honest its been a dirty campaign and people have been categorised into patriots and traitors or even worse xenophobic racists. This in my eyes from THE most tolerant, welcoming nation on the planet. Sure the idiots who have xenophobic tendencies jumped on the band wagon but they're in for a big shock if they think anything is going to change any time soon if at all. Probably at some point there will be some work permit system put in place but that will just help keep on top of who's here and what they're doing here.
Looking at the demographic it clearly looks to me like it was more a vote of no confidence in the government that's came back to bite them in the blahblahblahblah. That's what happens when you use the one person one vote system which should be in place in all elections. Makes you wonder which leaders we would have had in the past if we did. We've adopted an American style system using seats and areas. If you have a seat with 20k people in and a seat with 5k people in for arguments sake and 18k vote one way in the 20k seat and and 2k vote the same way in the other seat that counts as one each. Effectively 22k people out of 25k end up being governed by someone they never voted for. Fundamentally that's just wrong and what's happened is the 22K had their voices heard whether you like that or not.
I live on the Border with Scotland but work throughout the UK, personally where I live there's no issue but people overwhelmingly voted out. I work in areas of the UK where entire building sites of carpenters getting £14-15 pound a hour have been paid off and replaced with eastern European carpenters on £7.50 a hour. Even accommodation, if these carpenters bit the bullet
and stuck it out they were stopping in £40 per night hotels whereas the European carpenters were stopping 10 to a rented house or even worse sleeping outside the job in the back of a van and that's no good to anybody especially the migrant workers. That's not what we're about here...I hope anyway. I would rather have seen them Immigrant workers on £15 per hour then everybody can have some kind of life.
Regarding Scotland, I fully empathise with their problems. They feel disenfranchised with Westminster as do most northerners as was seen in the Vote. Successive governments from both persuasions have gave them a raw deal and they probably do feel that Europe would give them a fair crack of the whip or at least reel England in a bit. I have more in common with someone from Scotland than I do with someone from London. I feel as do many northerners that what happens down there benefits people down there but I think in England we've went for better changing our government than letting Europe decide, the power in London is so far in thinking from the North of England, the power in Europe even further. It seems like a vote in no confidence. Your voice is just getting less heard and the people have said they're not having it. Looks like the tribal elders have also spoken and they benefit quite a lot as does does Wales.
So hopefully no immigrants feel they are not welcome here. They're are more than welcome to come and live and work here, the more the merrier but it had to be on a level playing field and unscrupulous business owners not to abuse them. This vote wasn't about you, it was about the EU taking away our right to self govern and our own government not being in touch with the majority of our population. They asked us to speak and got their blahblahblahblah handed to them. People aren’t stupid but they would rather have a few tough years than continue with the status quo. EU shot themselves in the foot by being non negotiable. In this case they pushed it a little too far.
I hope things turn out alright and Scotland decides to stay with us. They are in a hell of a situation right now, I don't think there is anything Westminster wouldn't give them right now rather than another referendum which I suspect Nicola Sturgeon already knows.
Looking at the demographic it clearly looks to me like it was more a vote of no confidence in the government that's came back to bite them in the blahblahblahblah. That's what happens when you use the one person one vote system which should be in place in all elections. Makes you wonder which leaders we would have had in the past if we did. We've adopted an American style system using seats and areas. If you have a seat with 20k people in and a seat with 5k people in for arguments sake and 18k vote one way in the 20k seat and and 2k vote the same way in the other seat that counts as one each. Effectively 22k people out of 25k end up being governed by someone they never voted for. Fundamentally that's just wrong and what's happened is the 22K had their voices heard whether you like that or not.
I live on the Border with Scotland but work throughout the UK, personally where I live there's no issue but people overwhelmingly voted out. I work in areas of the UK where entire building sites of carpenters getting £14-15 pound a hour have been paid off and replaced with eastern European carpenters on £7.50 a hour. Even accommodation, if these carpenters bit the bullet
and stuck it out they were stopping in £40 per night hotels whereas the European carpenters were stopping 10 to a rented house or even worse sleeping outside the job in the back of a van and that's no good to anybody especially the migrant workers. That's not what we're about here...I hope anyway. I would rather have seen them Immigrant workers on £15 per hour then everybody can have some kind of life.
Regarding Scotland, I fully empathise with their problems. They feel disenfranchised with Westminster as do most northerners as was seen in the Vote. Successive governments from both persuasions have gave them a raw deal and they probably do feel that Europe would give them a fair crack of the whip or at least reel England in a bit. I have more in common with someone from Scotland than I do with someone from London. I feel as do many northerners that what happens down there benefits people down there but I think in England we've went for better changing our government than letting Europe decide, the power in London is so far in thinking from the North of England, the power in Europe even further. It seems like a vote in no confidence. Your voice is just getting less heard and the people have said they're not having it. Looks like the tribal elders have also spoken and they benefit quite a lot as does does Wales.
So hopefully no immigrants feel they are not welcome here. They're are more than welcome to come and live and work here, the more the merrier but it had to be on a level playing field and unscrupulous business owners not to abuse them. This vote wasn't about you, it was about the EU taking away our right to self govern and our own government not being in touch with the majority of our population. They asked us to speak and got their blahblahblahblah handed to them. People aren’t stupid but they would rather have a few tough years than continue with the status quo. EU shot themselves in the foot by being non negotiable. In this case they pushed it a little too far.
I hope things turn out alright and Scotland decides to stay with us. They are in a hell of a situation right now, I don't think there is anything Westminster wouldn't give them right now rather than another referendum which I suspect Nicola Sturgeon already knows.
AverageWhiteBloke
Member
I guess the poor migrant workers were collateral damage in a government that hasn't been working for decades and an EU that was trying to get more and more power over its member states.
This will not stop regardless if Britain is in the EU or not, happens in EU and non-EU countries. There are lots of non-EU migrants in London living here illegally and working for far less money than everyone else also. Will there be more control over this, I very much doubt it, will UK cut all their trading deals with EU? Free movement of good comes with free movement of labour, I very much doubt they will cut these ties, they will probably keep 80%+ of these laws.
End of the day I don't think much will change, but there are thousands of laws that now need to be agreed once again and this will take years, we will see what happens next week, the markets should recover, UK is still in the EU for now, but the Brexiters now need to come up with a solid plan, everything they promised is based on fiction, they just now need to start making those facts, if they cannot do that then UK could be in trouble for quite a while and at the end of the day we will all suffer British or non-British. The people you mentioned above have a right to stay here anyway so it really doesnt change anything.
We have already had a tough few years!
The EU was just the straw the broke the camels back!
There is a lot of disharmony in the UK about the way the average Joe has been treated in the last 10 years!
From increased pensionable age for women in their 50s .....losing out on a average of £20,000 of pension each!
From the Welfare reforms!
From the ATOS disaster!
From Banks being bailed out!
From NHS failings!
From Low Nursing moral!
From Education reforms!
From Doctors strikes!
From Dental and Prescription charges!
From Gas and Electricity bills!
From Toothless Regulators!
From High Fuel costs!
From High Car Insurance!
From Zero contract hours!
From Increased rail fares!
From High rents!
From No housing!
From No local Police Stations!
From Pot hole epidemics!
From Failing Privatisation's!
From MP Expenses!
From We are all in it TOGETHER......
......NOT.
There's more but I could be still on here till next week-end and I want to watch the Football........
hoggie
The EU was just the straw the broke the camels back!
There is a lot of disharmony in the UK about the way the average Joe has been treated in the last 10 years!
From increased pensionable age for women in their 50s .....losing out on a average of £20,000 of pension each!
From the Welfare reforms!
From the ATOS disaster!
From Banks being bailed out!
From NHS failings!
From Low Nursing moral!
From Education reforms!
From Doctors strikes!
From Dental and Prescription charges!
From Gas and Electricity bills!
From Toothless Regulators!
From High Fuel costs!
From High Car Insurance!
From Zero contract hours!
From Increased rail fares!
From High rents!
From No housing!
From No local Police Stations!
From Pot hole epidemics!
From Failing Privatisation's!
From MP Expenses!
From We are all in it TOGETHER......
......NOT.There's more but I could be still on here till next week-end and I want to watch the Football..
......hoggie
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AverageWhiteBloke
Member
Agree on all points. Not much is going to change but at least now people in England feel like they are now connected again with the decision making process again.
Probably work out better for everyone, EU now saying they need to reform which works out better for the remaining member states. Scotland and Ireland have some heavy bargaining chips to get themselves a better deal in the UK and England gave their own government a reality check.
England just took one for the team and I'm proud of that. Whether that works out better or worse in the short term it's far better than doing nothing at all.
Unfortunately it was fought on immigration but it really was bigger than that I feel.
Probably work out better for everyone, EU now saying they need to reform which works out better for the remaining member states. Scotland and Ireland have some heavy bargaining chips to get themselves a better deal in the UK and England gave their own government a reality check.
England just took one for the team and I'm proud of that. Whether that works out better or worse in the short term it's far better than doing nothing at all.
Unfortunately it was fought on immigration but it really was bigger than that I feel.
AWB
I agree it wasn't just about immigration....the majority of people that voted for a exit looked at the big picture, not just for themselves but for the younger generations to come!
A lot of them have a worst future than the bad old days of the 70s!
Take the Increased pension age for women born in the early 50s..... from 60 to 63....some of these women will be in poor health and can't work...but are expected too!
Or even forced!
We can bail out banks but can't give help to the ones who need it most and deserve it!
That is so wrong!
Its only the tip of the iceberg in my opinion!
hoggie
I agree it wasn't just about immigration....the majority of people that voted for a exit looked at the big picture, not just for themselves but for the younger generations to come!
A lot of them have a worst future than the bad old days of the 70s!
Take the Increased pension age for women born in the early 50s..... from 60 to 63....some of these women will be in poor health and can't work...but are expected too!
Or even forced!
We can bail out banks but can't give help to the ones who need it most and deserve it!
That is so wrong!
Its only the tip of the iceberg in my opinion!
hoggie
That has got nothing to do with being a member of the EU!
People's life expectancy is much higher, governments must adapt to protect themselves.
Global markets crash, affects everyone.
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I just think that the famous five (Schulz, Tusk, Rutte, Juncker, Lenaerts, and da Silva Caldiera; and Timmy the dog - well OK that's seven), have got it so wrong that Eurosceptics across the whole of Europe have had enough and the UK leaving is just the thin edge of the wedge...the rest will follow - trust me I used to be a lifeguard.
The EU has had its day, the project has failed and it's time for change. And I've said it before...it's all just a storm in a tea cup and leaving will ultimately pave the way for a new and prosperous democratic Europe free from the political meddling of unelected bureaucrats - see above names.
Europe's business leaders will determine our future and they're are not about to compromise. Angela Merkel acknowledges this and has been super quick to emphasize the fact...and what Germany wants, Germany usually gets...
As grandma used to say in these 'ere parts.. 'it'll all come out in the wash'...stop panicking, it'll be fine...instead of living in the same house on top of one another we'll all just be good neighbours living in the same street.
The EU has had its day, the project has failed and it's time for change. And I've said it before...it's all just a storm in a tea cup and leaving will ultimately pave the way for a new and prosperous democratic Europe free from the political meddling of unelected bureaucrats - see above names.
Europe's business leaders will determine our future and they're are not about to compromise. Angela Merkel acknowledges this and has been super quick to emphasize the fact...and what Germany wants, Germany usually gets...
As grandma used to say in these 'ere parts.. 'it'll all come out in the wash'...stop panicking, it'll be fine...instead of living in the same house on top of one another we'll all just be good neighbours living in the same street.
AverageWhiteBloke
Member
However we look at this or whether or not the vote went your way what we all can take from this is Scotland has had a raw deal for hundreds of years from Weatminster and the North of England for decades. The English forced the government to do something they didn't want to do for the first time in a very long time and Scotland will get the last say In whether it will be a United Kingdom.
Now if that isn't democracy I don't know what is. If there's one thing we can still do well in this country it's democracy.
Now if that isn't democracy I don't know what is. If there's one thing we can still do well in this country it's democracy.
That said tho'. I confess to being a little confused...Scotland voted to stay in the UK but isn't willing to accept the UK vote to leave...that to me is undermining the fundamental constitutional principles of democracy, as is the strange assurgence for a second referendum both in Scotland and the rest of the UK.
It's a very dangerous stance for democracy the world over.
P.S. in other words we can't hold an indefinite number of referendums until we get the right result.
It is what it is...we need to stop whining, pull to together and do our best to make a jolly good fist of it all.
If we do this it'll be the best thing that has happened to the UK and Europe in 40 odd years.
It's a very dangerous stance for democracy the world over.
P.S. in other words we can't hold an indefinite number of referendums until we get the right result.
It is what it is...we need to stop whining, pull to together and do our best to make a jolly good fist of it all.
If we do this it'll be the best thing that has happened to the UK and Europe in 40 odd years.
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Lindy
Member
Many folk voted for Scotland to remain in the UK as they were told this was the only way they would remain in the EU. Many also succumbed to the lies and scaremongering and voted to remain in the UK. I suspect they will change their vote in a second referendum.
Unfortunately no matter why people voted out of the EU they have empowered the racist element who are now abusing people openly on the streets. It is sad and also frightening.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Unfortunately no matter why people voted out of the EU they have empowered the racist element who are now abusing people openly on the streets. It is sad and also frightening.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
