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- Thread starter Rabbit229
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Dr Mike Oxgreen
Member
We would need some details about your tank setup. Do you use CO2? I have often read that Black Brush Algae (BBA) can be suppressed by raising the CO2 level and ensuring that it's well distributed.
DRG93
Member
Hello,
Keep up with the water changes and don't give in! Ordinarily, water changes should be done every week at 50% especially if you are dosing the EI way - but more is better when you have an algae problem.
Manual intervention is key. A good way to eradicate or at least reduce the amount of BBA in your tank is to spot dose it with liquid CO2. There are many different brands of Liquid CO2 on the market and it's pretty good at killing off BBA. Best thing to do is to turn your filter off, leave the water to stand for a few minutes, then manually syringe liquid Carbon straight onto the algae-ridden area. Once you have spot dosed all the affected areas, wait for about 10 or so minutes more and turn your filter back on. You'll soon start to see (a matter of days, sometimes hours) that the BBA starts to turn red and then white and then BAM it's gone. Although please note that this is a temporary solution and does not determine your root cause of the BBA.
Increasing your CO2 is good and I would slowly continue to increase it until fish show signs of stress, then knock it down a bit. That's when you know you've got an optimal amount of CO2 going into the tank. Fertilisers are not the issue here - keep dosing as per usual.
Also, take a quick look inside your filter. Do you see a build up of sludge and organic matter? Give the filter media and pads and quick rinse in old tank water (when you do your water changes) to get rid of some of the build-up. A major cause of algae is a build up of organics and toxins in the water so giving your filter this sort of head start is great. I recommend doing filter maintenance like this every couple of weeks at the time of a water change - this includes cleaning out the filter pipes and accessories.
It's also good to dose liquid CO2 as well as pressurised CO2 as long as you don't overdose (on both).
I hope this helps,
Dan
Keep up with the water changes and don't give in! Ordinarily, water changes should be done every week at 50% especially if you are dosing the EI way - but more is better when you have an algae problem.
Manual intervention is key. A good way to eradicate or at least reduce the amount of BBA in your tank is to spot dose it with liquid CO2. There are many different brands of Liquid CO2 on the market and it's pretty good at killing off BBA. Best thing to do is to turn your filter off, leave the water to stand for a few minutes, then manually syringe liquid Carbon straight onto the algae-ridden area. Once you have spot dosed all the affected areas, wait for about 10 or so minutes more and turn your filter back on. You'll soon start to see (a matter of days, sometimes hours) that the BBA starts to turn red and then white and then BAM it's gone. Although please note that this is a temporary solution and does not determine your root cause of the BBA.
Increasing your CO2 is good and I would slowly continue to increase it until fish show signs of stress, then knock it down a bit. That's when you know you've got an optimal amount of CO2 going into the tank. Fertilisers are not the issue here - keep dosing as per usual.
Also, take a quick look inside your filter. Do you see a build up of sludge and organic matter? Give the filter media and pads and quick rinse in old tank water (when you do your water changes) to get rid of some of the build-up. A major cause of algae is a build up of organics and toxins in the water so giving your filter this sort of head start is great. I recommend doing filter maintenance like this every couple of weeks at the time of a water change - this includes cleaning out the filter pipes and accessories.
It's also good to dose liquid CO2 as well as pressurised CO2 as long as you don't overdose (on both).
I hope this helps,
Dan
Hey Rabbit,
Can you remember how/when this all came about? Did you do any water changes before it happened, whats your tank temperature and do you make sure the new water is at the same temperature as the tank water? What's your lighting, flow and where did the BBA first appear? Do you know your TDS (conductivity)? Do you use CO2?
How is the BBA cleanup going?
Rabbit229
Member
- Joined
- 18 Feb 2015
- Messages
- 263
Well I think I must off brought this horrible algae in from my local pet shops.
I tried all sorts to get rid of this and fighting a loosing battle. My 900ltr tank has now been stripped of all plants and bog wood. I've cleaned this algae from the back of glass. And at the week end I'm going to give the substance a clean. With the water and fish still in the tank. I've got £100S of pounds worth of fish and got no were to put them so will have to do best I can with out killing the fish.
My biggest worry is as soon as I start planting it's going to come right back? Once it's in the tank is it game over???
Am I best of waiting a few month
I tried all sorts to get rid of this and fighting a loosing battle. My 900ltr tank has now been stripped of all plants and bog wood. I've cleaned this algae from the back of glass. And at the week end I'm going to give the substance a clean. With the water and fish still in the tank. I've got £100S of pounds worth of fish and got no were to put them so will have to do best I can with out killing the fish.
My biggest worry is as soon as I start planting it's going to come right back? Once it's in the tank is it game over???
Am I best of waiting a few month
Perhaps remind us (OK me 
) of tank details, also fish & feeding regime & tank maintenance
Look at page 1 of Disobedience II for an example of what I'm asking for regarding tank details
Depending on tank details & fish etc, 1-2-Grow! type plants may not be the best option, you will also want substantial plant mass present as fast-growing stem plants to help re-establish tank balance.
Tropica does a rather nice presentation on setting up a planted tank & it's easy to follow their 90 Day App (& stay on top of maintenance etc)
Clean your tank & filter thoroughly of debris, toss any media such as sponges or poly wool etc, deep clean substrate at least a couple of times a week or more apart.
If you can temporarily relocate fish with filter (cleaned) to a barrel/bin etc, you could add sufficient peroxide (or algaecides) to the tank (after deep substrate cleaning) & just run a powerhead for circulation ... after suitable time & dosing, again clean system well, then refill etc & re-add fish 12-24h later (depending on what sort of algaecide you use & fish you have, clean & wait protocol may vary)
) of tank details, also fish & feeding regime & tank maintenanceLook at page 1 of Disobedience II for an example of what I'm asking for regarding tank details
This is where tissue culture plants such as Tropica 1-2-Grow! are useful, you can also request your local shop order in a box from Tropica (or other plant nursery) that contains just your order, you then collect this without the shop opening box/handling plants etc - this should minimize algae introduction.
Depending on tank details & fish etc, 1-2-Grow! type plants may not be the best option, you will also want substantial plant mass present as fast-growing stem plants to help re-establish tank balance.
Tropica does a rather nice presentation on setting up a planted tank & it's easy to follow their 90 Day App (& stay on top of maintenance etc)
Clean your tank & filter thoroughly of debris, toss any media such as sponges or poly wool etc, deep clean substrate at least a couple of times a week or more apart.
If you can temporarily relocate fish with filter (cleaned) to a barrel/bin etc, you could add sufficient peroxide (or algaecides) to the tank (after deep substrate cleaning) & just run a powerhead for circulation ... after suitable time & dosing, again clean system well, then refill etc & re-add fish 12-24h later (depending on what sort of algaecide you use & fish you have, clean & wait protocol may vary)
Rabbit229
Member
- Joined
- 18 Feb 2015
- Messages
- 263
Basically I'm screwed then as I can't move my fish so can't sterility my filters' fish would die as my tank would no longer be mature.
I have 13 large discus
100s of red noise and cardinals and many other fish in the 7x2x2 tank
BBA HAS RUINED MY LIFE cost me 3k set this system up and that's with out the cost of the fish
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/800-ltr.37573/
This was my tank. You can see photo at the last post of how it looked until I got the BBA
I have 13 large discus
100s of red noise and cardinals and many other fish in the 7x2x2 tank
BBA HAS RUINED MY LIFE cost me 3k set this system up and that's with out the cost of the fish
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/800-ltr.37573/
This was my tank. You can see photo at the last post of how it looked until I got the BBA
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No suggestion of sterilizing your filter
As I mention, it is possible to move all those fish to temporary holding tanks but it's also possible to give the tank a good clean with fish in situ - just much slower process & usually more stressful to fish.
If you disturb substrate with fish in tank, it's conservative to have done extra water changes leading up to this maintenance, also dose Prime at intervals through the process (it will help bind various released compouds), perform a large water change immediately afterwards.
In a tank this size (& sounds heavily stocked with some rather expensive fish), I'd only deep clean 12 - 18 inch (length) by 24 inch (tank front to back) "strip" of substrate each "clean day", and give fish at least a day between "clean days"
Discus being discus, I'd still remove them to temporary holdings (sponge filters & 90% daily water changes works for breeders - do some research on this for details ... sorry I don't recall how discus experience you are) & return them to the tank once all the messy cleaning is done & tank has settled.
There are many many posts on this forum about BBA & various methods of limiting it's growth, dealing with excess etc
BBA doesn't happen overnight but is a fairly slow invasive process, & during that time, conditions must be such that BBA is advantaged & plants disadvantaged - problem is, that balance point in a planted tank is not so easy to recognise or maintain ...
I don't see any mention in your linked thread of CO2 levels or water changes or plant maintenance routine or light schedule or ....
- perhaps if I scrutinized each post I might glean that information but it seems reasonable to me that you would provide those details if you're interested in suggestions
there are no cardinals & rummy noses anywhere near wild discus habitats)
It's an excellent time of year to get plant propagators going, you can buy just a few pots of sterile tissue culture plants & grow out a forest to restock your tank with
There are some excellent propagator threads & lots interspersed into various tank journals
Tank was looking grand before the Invasion - well done
As I mention, it is possible to move all those fish to temporary holding tanks but it's also possible to give the tank a good clean with fish in situ - just much slower process & usually more stressful to fish.
If you disturb substrate with fish in tank, it's conservative to have done extra water changes leading up to this maintenance, also dose Prime at intervals through the process (it will help bind various released compouds), perform a large water change immediately afterwards.
In a tank this size (& sounds heavily stocked with some rather expensive fish), I'd only deep clean 12 - 18 inch (length) by 24 inch (tank front to back) "strip" of substrate each "clean day", and give fish at least a day between "clean days"
Discus being discus, I'd still remove them to temporary holdings (sponge filters & 90% daily water changes works for breeders - do some research on this for details ... sorry I don't recall how discus experience you are) & return them to the tank once all the messy cleaning is done & tank has settled.
There are many many posts on this forum about BBA & various methods of limiting it's growth, dealing with excess etc
BBA doesn't happen overnight but is a fairly slow invasive process, & during that time, conditions must be such that BBA is advantaged & plants disadvantaged - problem is, that balance point in a planted tank is not so easy to recognise or maintain ...
I don't see any mention in your linked thread of CO2 levels or water changes or plant maintenance routine or light schedule or ....
- perhaps if I scrutinized each post I might glean that information but it seems reasonable to me that you would provide those details if you're interested in suggestions
No
No
Sure - set up tank as a Discus biotope in the meantime (well sort of biotope
there are no cardinals & rummy noses anywhere near wild discus habitats) It's an excellent time of year to get plant propagators going, you can buy just a few pots of sterile tissue culture plants & grow out a forest to restock your tank with
There are some excellent propagator threads & lots interspersed into various tank journals
Tank was looking grand before the Invasion - well done
I must be failing at clarity
I was trying to indicate that it's rather unlikely to be of much assistance
This may not be the best chart but it was first on Google (almost)
UV Inactivation of various microbes
I'd consider this article a Must Read before purchasing any Aquarium UV Sterilizer
(there are other more technical reviews/analyses elsewhere but this fellow provides a good summary)
Before purchasing whichever unit makes your Top 3 Picks, contact the manufacturers & request emission data on the lamps, make sure you're able to supply the recommended flow past the bulb (UV inactivation requires contact time & v.e.r.y clean water - any particles are just going to "distract" the UV from your intended target).
This is a large tank and you need to move ALL the water volume through the UV in a reasonable time period (actual time period will depend on what you're hoping to inactivate) so you may want to buy a commercial unit rather than multiple hobby grade UV's
If you have hard water, choose a unit with a quartz sleeve that is removable/cleanable (replaceable) - expect to pay some decent change for this quartz sleeve, glass with good transmission in the UV region is expensive.
UV lamps drop in efficiency quite rapidly, multiple ON/OFF events "age" the lamp so try to limit these, again request UV output over time data from the manufacturer so you have a good idea of running cost for the various systems (you might buy).
Algae vs plants is very much a balance of tank conditions, sometimes just introducing a not very efficient/effective UV will help shift that balance, so you may see improvement/change
I was trying to indicate that it's rather unlikely to be of much assistance
This may not be the best chart but it was first on Google (almost)
UV Inactivation of various microbes
I'd consider this article a Must Read before purchasing any Aquarium UV Sterilizer
(there are other more technical reviews/analyses elsewhere but this fellow provides a good summary)
Before purchasing whichever unit makes your Top 3 Picks, contact the manufacturers & request emission data on the lamps, make sure you're able to supply the recommended flow past the bulb (UV inactivation requires contact time & v.e.r.y clean water - any particles are just going to "distract" the UV from your intended target).
This is a large tank and you need to move ALL the water volume through the UV in a reasonable time period (actual time period will depend on what you're hoping to inactivate) so you may want to buy a commercial unit rather than multiple hobby grade UV's
If you have hard water, choose a unit with a quartz sleeve that is removable/cleanable (replaceable) - expect to pay some decent change for this quartz sleeve, glass with good transmission in the UV region is expensive.
UV lamps drop in efficiency quite rapidly, multiple ON/OFF events "age" the lamp so try to limit these, again request UV output over time data from the manufacturer so you have a good idea of running cost for the various systems (you might buy).
Algae vs plants is very much a balance of tank conditions, sometimes just introducing a not very efficient/effective UV will help shift that balance, so you may see improvement/change
Rabbit229
Member
- Joined
- 18 Feb 2015
- Messages
- 263
It's been weeks of scrubbing now but the stuff growers back faster each week. We have to drain the tank of 700ltr each week and scrub it of. The tank is so big I can not get in to do the cleaning so I send in my daughter
It really is getting us down now. The only thing in the tank is substrate and fish. How the hell do I get rid of this algae? I don't want to throwaway the substrate as it was £300. It's looking like am on the edge of just selling the full set up. And after all the hard work, money and time its sole destroying. All due to this stupid algae
It really is getting us down now. The only thing in the tank is substrate and fish. How the hell do I get rid of this algae? I don't want to throwaway the substrate as it was £300. It's looking like am on the edge of just selling the full set up. And after all the hard work, money and time its sole destroying. All due to this stupid algae
zozo
Member
Sorry to read about you troubles but great picture,, .. BBA is never going away if the light is to much.. And this can be rather minor changes triggering it to grow or come back. I got it too, many aquarists do, once the spores are in there is no way of getting it out again without a total scrub and everything new and then you are still not in the clear. You never know if new plants cary algae spores..
I got rid of it to dim back the lights to 50% for rather long periode, then a 3 day blackout the kill of the remaining and slowely up the light again over a few weeks time to 100%... I was clear of it for months, few weeks ago i did hang my lights a few inches closer to the tank. Lo and behold, guess who's back within 3 weeks?? BBA. Remarkable to see, such a small trigger makes it reappear.
Play with maybe more co2, less light intensity and keep up a good sufficient fert regime. Sounds all very easy, actualy it is it only takes time and patience to find that sweetspot. Once it's there it can takes a few moths before you see it slowly disappear..
good luck..
.. BBA is never going away if the light is to much.. And this can be rather minor changes triggering it to grow or come back. I got it too, many aquarists do, once the spores are in there is no way of getting it out again without a total scrub and everything new and then you are still not in the clear. You never know if new plants cary algae spores..I got rid of it to dim back the lights to 50% for rather long periode, then a 3 day blackout the kill of the remaining and slowely up the light again over a few weeks time to 100%... I was clear of it for months, few weeks ago i did hang my lights a few inches closer to the tank. Lo and behold, guess who's back within 3 weeks??
BBA. Remarkable to see, such a small trigger makes it reappear.Play with maybe more co2, less light intensity and keep up a good sufficient fert regime. Sounds all very easy, actualy it is it only takes time and patience to find that sweetspot. Once it's there it can takes a few moths before you see it slowly disappear..
good luck..
Have you tried the One-Two punch?. Have a look at the methodology and do it 3 or 4 times. It has worked for many people and even Tom Barr has recommended it. Bear in mind that this will remove algae, but not the cause of it. If that is not tacked then you´ll run into problems again...
H2O2 is cheap. You´ll need around 1 L for each treatment + 120 ml of Excel, which is not so cheap but not expensive either (around 15 euros for 250 ml)
I think it is worth to try... you´ve got nothing (or little) to lose. Around 40 euros total for two treatments...
Cheers
H2O2 is cheap. You´ll need around 1 L for each treatment + 120 ml of Excel, which is not so cheap but not expensive either (around 15 euros for 250 ml)
I think it is worth to try... you´ve got nothing (or little) to lose. Around 40 euros total for two treatments...
Cheers
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Rabbit229
Member
- Joined
- 18 Feb 2015
- Messages
- 263
Best think I've heard so far. Although I've thrown out £90 worth of substrate and just left with fish in my tank.
Still getting this growing on my tank and pipes so am going give it a go. I've got 17 discus in my tank so I'll move these in to buckets as I don't want to harm these. And I'll go for 4 tbs to 10gallon
When would be a safe time put these discus back in
